The Nightmare has Happened.!!!!

[mad pierre]

Ive just put some Nori in the tank and noticed my Majestic was not his usual bullying self. On closer inspection he looks like he is covered in a thin layer of flour. Hes not the only one.
My Juv Blue face isnt as badly affected but is not right, and my Royal Gramma is looking covered as well. All are still feeding but the Majestic who is normally the first to the Nori hung back until the others had eaten before taking some. The Gramma is in the back corner of the tank just hanging vertical nose down, about half way up.

Is this the dreaded whitespot?

Peter

[mousehunter22]

Nope it sounds to me like the even worse oodinium or marine velvet take my advice get them out ASAP and treat them cos ive lost loads of fish cos this pest is so resilient!!!!:(

[wilo]

would try fresh water dip to be on safe side -chemicals take to long and dont always work :D

[Timo]

Ive just put some Nori in the tank and noticed my Majestic was not his usual bullying self. On closer inspection he looks like he is covered in a thin layer of flour. Hes not the only one.
My Juv Blue face isnt as badly affected but is not right, and my Royal Gramma is looking covered as well. All are still feeding but the Majestic who is normally the first to the Nori hung back until the others had eaten before taking some. The Gramma is in the back corner of the tank just hanging vertical nose down, about half way up.

Is this the dreaded whitespot?

Peter

Try a fresh water dip as soon as poss, must be done before three days of first spotting the fish is infected.


Difficulty: Easy
Time Required: Less than 10 minutes
Here's How:


Fill a plastic container of choice with an appropriate source of freshwater, such as RO/DI filtered water. If you have no choice but to use tap water, be sure to dechorlinate it first.
To prevent unnecessary shock and stress, try to match the pH and temperature of the freshwater to that of the aquarium water the fish will be removed from.
To prevent ammonia from building up in the treatment water, add an ammonia eliminating product. AmQuel by Kordon is highly recommended for this purpose, and it is a dechlorinate as well.
Although an optional step, it is recommended that some type of antibiotic medication be added to the treatment water as well. Because fish will be confined in a small amount of water, probably with other fish, the freshwater will cause them to expel waste, which in turn will most likely foul up the water. A nitrofurazone based product works well to help protect the fish from being exposed to their own waste during the procedure.
Keep the water vigorously aerated during treatment. The simplest way to do this is to insert an air stone into the container.
Remove all the fish from the infected aquarium and place them into the freshwater. If you have a large number of fish to treat, do not overcrowd the container. You can do small groups at a time, changing the water after each group has been treated.
For the best results fish should remain in the freshwater for a duration of 3 to 4 minutes. If any fish is showing signs of undue stress after a minute or two, remove it.
Tips:


If when you initially put the fish in the freshwater they settle to the bottom on their sides and do not move about, don't worry, they usually upright themselves and start moving around within about the first minute. If concerned you can nudge them a little bit to stimulate movement, and if any fish looks to be overly stressed, remove it.
Sometimes during the dip/bath the water can become extremely fouled with waste. By making up and setting some extra treatment water aside it can be used to do water changes during the procedure if this occurs.
If you do not plan to quaratine new fish prior to placing them into the main aquarium, and as long as there are no signs of stress from being in transit, it doesn't hurt to give them a quick freshwater dip or bath as a preventative measure.
What You Need:


Plastic container
Ammonia destroying product
Nitrofurazone based medication
Air pump and air stone
Freshwater
QT

[mousehunter22]

From what ive read and been told fresh water dipping doesnt work on these kinds of infestation as the parasite is buryed under the skin and so covered from the effects of fresh water! Just what ive read ive never tried it so cant comment:D

[mad pierre]

This is going to be a nightmare to implement.
I have around 85KG of LR in my tank and will have to remove it all in order to net the fish. I dont have the medication and wont be a ble to get a day off work until the weekend.
What are the chances of this actually working? Wont the parasite still be in my tank water when i put the fish back in?
I was thinking of removing the infected fish (I have others which are showing no signs at all even under close inspection) and putting them in a seperate tank (actually an unused sump) with UV and Ozone to see if they recover. Would this be a good idea after the dip for the worse infected fish anyway?

Peter

[wilo]

all depends on what your fish are worth to you m8 , me personally ---would be taking all LR out right now and fresh water dipping all affectected stock and quarantining (a couple of hours pi**ing about and your done):D

[mad pierre]

all depends on what your fish are worth to you m8 , me personally ---would be taking all LR out right now and fresh water dipping all affectected stock and quarantining (a couple of hours pi**ing about and your done):D
I dont have the medication that is advised and wont be able to get any till tommorrow. I gave away my spare RO to a fellow reefer the other day, but have put the RO unit on again so should have enough by morning to do the dip and replace what Im going to remove from the display system for the quarantine tank.
I have just plumbed in my 40w UV into the main tank, but cant put the ozone on yet as I have no carbon till I can get to the shop. these will both be put on the spare tank for the worst affected fish once the dip has been done.

[wilo]

shame you miles away -got 100 lts of ro/di made up and got carbon etc --any probs --like needing more water at last min , "just say ":D.

[mad pierre]

shame you miles away -got 100 lts of ro/di made up and got carbon etc --any probs --like needing more water at last min , "just say ":D.
Cheers mate but a bit too far. Hopefully the UV will slow things down a bit and give me chance to strip it down tommorow. (good job I picked up that 45gal drum!, looks like im going to need it sooner than expected)

Peter

[wilo]

ok Pete, hope you get things sorted:D

[sinaarrgghh]

I have about 5 gallons of RO made up and will pop the drum outside to fill in case you need it. If you need a hand with anything like rock moving, fish catching etc. give me a shout, I'm not far away and will be happy to help.

[moorish]

sounds like its velvet,you would have to remove the fish to another tank to treat or remove the rock and treat the fish in the tank.derek

[mad pierre]

sounds like its velvet,you would have to remove the fish to another tank to treat or remove the rock and treat the fish in the tank.derek
what do I treat with, and do I do all the fish- even those with no signs?
What about the inverts (shrimps & banded stars), CC etc


Peter

[Zeus]

Sorry to hear this Peter and equally sorry to say that it does sound like Velvet.

This a particularly nasty, horrible parasite that is partially photosynthetic but not difficult, just time consuming, to get rid of in the main tank AFTER you remove all the fish.

The FW dip before going into QT will help as it will knock out some of the parasites on fish but it's NOT a cure and UV and Ozone will not cure them either, true it can help control the parasite but consider that for UV and Ozone to be effective to Dinospores, the free swimming stage of the parasite, must be drawn in by the UV or skimmer feed pumps and thus passed by the UV lamp and skimmer reaction chamber respectively.

You must remove all the fish and keep them out for at least 62 days, cut down you photoperiod as well if you can as this will help starve the 'spores in the tank.

Treat the fish with Copper and feed them well. I recommend you get the New Era flake and/or sprays, if you haven't got them already.

You should also get some Seachem Stability and API Ammolock, used in harmony they will prevent ammonia poisoning due to inadequate, initially anyway, filter bacteria in the QT/Hospital tank. The Ammolock will detoxify the ammonia but leave it available for the bacteria in the Stability to feed on thus quickly establishing your filtration. You could also use Polyfilter in the QT filter as this will remove Ammonia but leaving some for the bacteria as well. Also, get plenty of water mixed and ready to go, at least for the first 5 days as the filtration establishes change at least 10% every 12 hours or so, or more frequently as required and dose with a measure of Stability, Ammolock and Copper appropriate for the volume of incoming new water (not the whole tank volume) I have found that this high level of changes are not necessary after the first week with Ammolock and Stability.

Another thing that I do is to dose 1/2 measure of Stability along with the Copper dose, this'll help maintain filter bacteria.

Get a Copper test kit and keep the Copper level about 0.2 to 0.3ppm for about 2 weeks.

This is a bitch of a job, just looking at my still empty tank I can only imagine what a task this'll be for you but it's the only way I am afraid.

Remember no fewer than 62 days without fish in the main tank or you risk perpetuating the parasite.

I hope this helps and good luck to you and the fish.

Campbell

[mad pierre]

Thanks for that Campbell.

this sounds like a nightmare as I doubt I have anything big enough to house all my fish for 62 days.
Will the tank I treat in be able to be used again? The only tank I have spare at the mo is a 36x15x15 sump, no where near big enough,and I dont want to ruin it for later use.
I do have a 45gal fit filtration tank with built in skimmer/filters but it is at the LFS getting a new base on and not due back until next week.
It was going to be a tank for the missus to learn on (fish and LR but with an anemone (she loves clowns). Would I still be able to use it for them after treating the fish in there with copper?

Peter.

[Zeus]

Thanks for that Campbell.

this sounds like a nightmare as I doubt I have anything big enough to house all my fish for 62 days.
Will the tank I treat in be able to be used again? The only tank I have spare at the mo is a 36x15x15 sump, no where near big enough,and I dont want to ruin it for later use.
I do have a 45gal fit filtration tank with built in skimmer/filters but it is at the LFS getting a new base on and not due back until next week.
It was going to be a tank for the missus to learn on (fish and LR but with an anemone (she loves clowns). Would I still be able to use it for them after treating the fish in there with copper?

Peter.

You are welcome Peter.

I see no reason not to use the tank again after a good cleaning. My only concern would be any copper residue that may coat the silicon, plastic pipes, skimmer body etc. Although I must confess I am no expert with chemicals and their properties in this regard. However, if you are not sure then running Polyfilter and carbon when your wife is setting the tank up can only do good. When the Copepods appear I'd say it's safe for other inverts.

Campbell

[wilo]

iv got that 48"x12"x18"on metal stand thats drilled ,(one in garden) its also got lid with room for 2x 42" t5,s-you could link it to your 36" _if its any good call round and take it cos its off 2 skip next week:D

[mad pierre]

You are welcome Peter.

I see no reason not to use the tank again after a good cleaning. My only concern would be any copper residue that may coat the silicon, plastic pipes, skimmer body etc. Although I must confess I am no expert with chemicals and their properties in this regard. However, if you are not sure then running Polyfilter and carbon when your wife is setting the tank up can only do good. When the Copepods appear I'd say it's safe for other inverts.

Campbell

Looks like I will be getting on to the LFS on Thursday then (They are closed tommorow.) Hope the fish can survive until then. Is it worth moving the UV over to the quarantine tank or should I leave it to help clear the main tank water?

Peter

[Zeus]

Peter,

I'd just leave the UV where it is as it will help clear the main tank and you really should not use UV with medications in the water.

Campbell

[sinaarrgghh]

When were you planning on moving to the 6 footer? It might just be the right time to get that set up and use that for the fish. Then move the rock in and wait for the copepods, then move the inverts?

[mad pierre]

When were you planning on moving to the 6 footer? It might just be the right time to get that set up and use that for the fish. Then move the rock in and wait for the copepods, then move the inverts?

Its not drilled yet and I dont have either a good stand or a sump for it yet. I also wouldnt want to use the main tank for copper treatments as i would be scared to put my corals back in.
I am thnking now might be the time to start the new tank project though. If the fish are in the quarantine tank, I could move the rock and corals to a 45gal plastic holding tank I have, and that would let me shut down the 4fter and replace it with the new tank once the stand is built (and a nice gent comes and drills it for me- hi eric;))
Could take my time with it then and mature the tank, even putting the fish back in once treatment was complete and leaving it fish only until the rock is ok.

Peter

[MickTheFin]

Only just got round to check the forum...

Peter, I've refilled your RO drums and can drop them off today if it's any help (Thanks btw). If I were you, I'd get the 6' tank set up asap and put all your rock and inverts in it. Then you can treat the fish in your 4' with the meds that will work...

If you need any help, give me a call.

Mike

[mad pierre]

Only just got round to check the forum...

Peter, I've refilled your RO drums and can drop them off today if it's any help (Thanks btw). If I were you, I'd get the 6' tank set up asap and put all your rock and inverts in it. Then you can treat the fish in your 4' with the meds that will work...

If you need any help, give me a call.

Mike

Thanks Mike. cant use the 6ft yet as its not drilled and I havent got a big enough sump for it.Also cant transfer any rock etc to it until im sure they are free from the paraistes, otherwise I will be introducing it to the new tank.
As for the 4ft, i dont want to add copper to it as I might want to use it for corals again in the future or maybe even sell it, either of which precludes the use of copper.
I will get the fit filtration tank back from the lfs asap and treat the fish in there. I have just got a 45gal Plastic holding tank from a garden centre that was closing its marine side so will put rock/corals/inverts in that when fish are moved.
that will let me take the 4ft out and spend a while getting the 6ft into place and set correctly.
Once the fish have been treated the survivors can be transfered back to the 6ft whic I can run as Fish only until th 2 months have past to make the rock safe again.

Thats the plan anyway.

Peter

[mad pierre]

Sad Update.
My prized Majestic angel and the royal Gramma have succomed to the lergie. The other fish are all feeding quite happily, but the skunk clowns appear to have it on thier fins (powdery appearance). To be fair they looked like this once before a few months back and it cleared up on its own (maybe the cleaner shrimp or nem?) Dont suppose ill be that lucky this time.

Peter

[Tangman]

Sad Update.
My prized Majestic angel and the royal Gramma have succomed to the lergie. The other fish are all feeding quite happily, but the skunk clowns appear to have it on thier fins (powdery appearance). To be fair they looked like this once before a few months back and it cleared up on its own (maybe the cleaner shrimp or nem?) Dont suppose ill be that lucky this time.

Peter
Hi Peter sorry to hear your losses m8, i know how you feel as you cant do anything to stop it. Twiggy

[mad pierre]

Hi Peter sorry to hear your losses m8, i know how you feel as you cant do anything to stop it. Twiggy

Thanks eric. Will soldier on. Time to get on with the new tank methinks.

How is yours doing?

Peter

[Tangman]

Thanks eric. Will soldier on. Time to get on with the new tank methinks.

How is yours doing?

Peter
Hi about the same m8. Twiggy

[mousehunter22]

Peter i have a 4'x12"x15" tank in my garden that ive used for copper treatment befor it has a lid but no light,your more than welcome to it if you want it:D

[mad pierre]

Peter i have a 4'x12"x15" tank in my garden that ive used for copper treatment befor it has a lid but no light,your more than welcome to it if you want it:D

Yes that would be great Lee. What do you want for it mate? (pity about the copper.. it would have made a good sump for my 6ft, after treating these fish.)

Peter

[MickTheFin]

Hi Peter,

How are the fish doing?

Mike

[mad pierre]

Hi Peter,

How are the fish doing?

Mike

Not so good. I lost both Mandrins, my Algae blenny and my Blue face angel over the weekend.
Ive 4 fish left which are now at the LFS in Peterlee. Neil is giving them a copper treatment for me while he puts a 10mm base on the 45 gal tank.
Ive been and bought some more LR from another member which is now in a vat in my front room so that when I get the tank back ive got something to put in it that isnt contaminated.
The rock and corals from the 4ft will then be transfered to the vat and kept for 2 months until I can be sure theres no infection left before transfering back to the main tank. (hopefully that will be the 6ft by then, which will have the rock ive just bought and newly cycled water)
Thats the plan anyway. Just depends on time and finances now as I still need a sump and plumbing plus the tank drilling before I can go ahead.

Its gonna be slow getting to where I want to be, but in the end I hope I will have learned a lot and have a better designed system when its all over.

(bet you wish you hadn't asked now eh;))

Peter

[mad pierre]

Just an update.
Went to see the lfs yesterday and found out my poor pair of skunk clowns have died. That leaves me with two fish, a Flame and a fireball. Good news is that after treatment by Neil they are both looking well and hopefully will survive. Picking up the QT tank on monday and will get that full and cycled ASAP, ready to accept the survivors.

Peter.

[Artyspider]

Sorry to hear that the others didn't make it. Fingers crossed for the 2 left.
Artyspider