Coral Problems Again

[oakwell]

Ok i put a thread on here about my pussy coral and finger coral a few weeks ago that seemed to be disintigating well i had to totally cut the pussy coral into frag sizes and managed to get sround 3 frags from it which i now hope to re-introduce back into my main system in time and the finger coral i kept cutting back and now seems back to health.

I have a new probelm with the same sympons with a different coral and am at a total loss!

All the corals seemed to start off with the problem with the top lare of the coral just falling away i.e if i run a brush over it the surface just clouds away to dust and nothing seems to be eating them, i have also noticed my pulsing xenia is also starting to disappear...does anyone have any ideas on what my problem might be all my water tests seem stable with no probelms

[Kev]

Hi Oakwell

Its not nice when things are not going well with the hobby, it can feel pretty unforgiving. Hang in there. However, struggling with my thoughts on this one.

Can you give us more details.

What are your water parameters. Filtration type.
What size system you have, lighting specs.
What stock you have, both fish and inverts.

Amy chance you could post a full tank shot?

Kev

[oakwell]

Ammonia 0
Nirites 0
Nitrate 10
Ph 8.2
Pho 0.03
Temp 27

the tanks filtered by LR and a berlins skimmer and there are details of my setup in the tanks section along with some piccys ..hope someone can help i cannot find anything at all wrong with anything else

[oakwell]

Ok heres the tank specs 5*2*2 filtered with LR (apporx 90kilos) and a berlin skimmer.
I have some LR Rubble in sump with some chaeto and run an internal filter with some rowphos in there.

Its a very simple system but so far its working and i am happy with it at the minute although i am a long way off finishing it!!

Regarding Livestock i have the following

Sailfin Tang, Yellow Tang, Kole Tang, Bi-Coloured Angel, Sleeper Goby, Algae Blenny , Yellow Goby, Cleaner Wrase, Pair of Common Clowns

Cleaner Shrimp,2 Peppermints and approx 18 Turbos, approx 40 blue legs and other various snails

[Gillybaby]

What is you PH swing and have you tested Alkalinity, Magnesium & Calcium? Xenia is susceptible to a low dKH which is linked to an imbalance in Magnesium & Calcium and causes a high PH swing. I'm beginning to wonder if this is what's been affecting your other corals. I know softies don't necessarily need Mg/Ca to be spot on but the resultant fluctuations in ph have been known to cause problems.

Just a thought ;)

[Kev]

Hi Oakwell

Just thinking about this one.

Whats your feeding regime like? How often and what %tage water change do you undertake?

Kev

[oakwell]

Gillybaby i dont do the tests you asked about but my ph is normally quite stable.

In the sump i have reverse lighting with caeto the main tank lights go out and then the sump lights come on.

I do a 10 gallon water change every 2 weeks and at the minute am only feeding 1/2 blocks of frozen each day spread out over 4-5 hours

[Kev]

Hi Oakwell

Struggling with this one. If I were in your situation I personally would up the next 2 water changes to 25% to freshen the system up. I would also have a serious look at flow, in my little tank there is over 8000lph turnover, and the tank is just over 30 gallon. Keeps the water sparkling and fresh. Coral extension is great.

Kev

[Kev]

Oh, and whilst I don't normally run carbon, I probably would in this instance, at least for a period until this situation was under control, changing the carbon on a very regular basis.

[oakwell]

yeah i might up the water changes for the next 2 just a quick note on flow heres what i have running at minute can u calc the flow for me?

2 streams 6060
1060 return pump
1060 pump running my skimmer
a small fluval in sump running carbon

[Kev]

I would have thought that should be ok.

I think my system is extreme in respect of flow.:D

I am sure there must be others here with thoughts on this one?

Kev

[Tangman]

Hi Daz. I am at a loss as well m8, i only wish there was something i could do to help you. Other than what others have said about what it could be i am baffled. Eric.

[oakwell]

yeah maybe i could check calcium levels but did'nt think this was a big thing with simple softies?

Also read a thread on another site reg a guy witha similar problem and they advised to dose iodine to help the corals recover, but i am wary of this

[Kev]

I have to say Daz, I agree. I don't worry about calcium in me mainly softie tank. I dose with nothing and just rely on water changes for the tanks needs.

Kev

[Tangman]

Hi Daz.I have heard that some people dose iodine for there corals, infact Neil who had Essential used to regulary dose his coral tanks with Lugols its a form of iodine i believe. I dont know if it did any good or not but it might be worth asking on Reef Central as those guys know there stuff and you might find an answer. HTH. Eric

[Gillybaby]

I just mentioned the out of balance thing cause that's a main cause of xenia crashing. Might still be worth checking the alkalinity but, as said, with regular water changes this should be fine. And with algae in the sump, I'd very much doubt there would be any major ph swing.

Very very puzzling indeed :o

[berns]

I just mentioned the out of balance thing cause that's a main cause of xenia crashing. Might still be worth checking the alkalinity but, as said, with regular water changes this should be fine. And with algae in the sump, I'd very much doubt there would be any major ph swing.

Very very puzzling indeed :o

as gillyhoney says get some test kits for the above as it will give you the bigger picture of your biology.

a golden rule in marines re-adding stuff (eg iodine)

if you cant test for it then dont add it

[Macca]

The thing that keeps me thinking ever time I read your post is Salinity. Dont ask me why but please get your refractometer checked.

Just a thought!

James

[gregh]

I'd say you have some form of predator in your system, a nudibranch or similiar.

you need some late night and early morning sessions with a torch to try and see if you can spot it.

I had similiar problems about 2 years ago, eventually found a soft coral eating nudibranch in my system!

Cheers,

Greg

[Tangman]

Hi GREG. Thats what i thoght and told Daz to fresh water dip his coral in warm ro water to see if any thing came out. He did this and its still carrying on, i think we will all have to have a night at Daz's house to find what it is. Eric

[SteveS]

What is you PH swing and have you tested Alkalinity, Magnesium & Calcium? Xenia is susceptible to a low dKH which is linked to an imbalance in Magnesium & Calcium and causes a high PH swing. I'm beginning to wonder if this is what's been affecting your other corals. I know softies don't necessarily need Mg/Ca to be spot on but the resultant fluctuations in ph have been known to cause problems.

Just a thought ;)

i think Gilly has it right on the nose here,

dkh,mag and calc all work in sync...if you calcs high one of the others could be through the floor etc or vice versa...i bet your dkh has fallen off the scale.

Ray (terrac) had a similar problem with xenia, though i think his other corals were uneffected.

are you using kent salt by any chance?

take a water sample to your lfs and let them test it, that way you'll know without spending a fortune on test kits

steve

[gregh]

I'm 100% with you there Eric, I really can't see softies reacting that badly to chemistry problems.

But Xenia sometimes doesn't grow well in certain tanks, and grows fine in others.

so maybe you are actually tackling 2 problems, the softies disintegrating and the Xenia disappearing, could well be unrelated I'm afraid!

Regards,

Greg

[oakwell]

we could have a late night at mu house starting at say 12 til 6 and hold a competition the spot the beastie!...seriously i have been watching for ages now and cant fina anything!

My toadstool had to be cut yesterday as this has some symphoms of the same as before parts coming off with a black substance around the damaged area.

I ahve cut the bits off and used a toothbrush to clean them up before placing them in my frag tank and within an hour they have opened up!

Really am unsure on this one!

I am using red sea salt from aquarious with as always been fine before

[oakwell]

ok i have moved some of the corals that where been damaged in my main tank into a frag tank and i made a discovery tonight.

Quite a few of my corals carried on wasting away and i had to get rid of one tonight and discovered this snail of some kind actually enbedded into the stalk of the coral and wondered if this was the culprit.

The actual creature inside seems very hard on the touch and is still alive cos i saw it move slightly but not seen it out of its shell...can anyone id?

[Macca]

It is a rapa snail, which eats softs corals from the inside by burrowing into them. Glad you found it Darren, Get Rid!

James

[oakwell]

Cheers James ...one more question should i expect more of these in my tank?

Please give me i answer i want!!:(

The snails in a plastic container in the fish house will he bo ok in my sump of should i destroy him

[Macca]

Not sure look out for small holes inleather etc I think they burrow into the coral and then eat from inside out. Here is something I found on Reef.org

http://www.scientificcoral.com/images/MiscImgs/RapaSnail100.jpg



Leather corals seem to be eaten by a number of different animals, but probably the most insidious from the aspect of the marine aquarist is the snail, Rapa rapa (Kohn, 1983). These snails can bore there way into a leather coral leaving only a small hole to mark their presence. Once inside they have the potential of completely eating the whole leather coral, but do it from the inside. The leather coral will appear to be fine, until one day it starts to disintegrate. If the hobbyist examine the coral basically all they find is a hollow shell and a rather large, about walnut-sized, snail in the cavity. In these cases, the colony may regenerate from the tissue fragments, but whole colony is no longer viable


If you have a suspect hole gently squeeze to see if you feel a small hrad shells inside. Sorry Darren I cant help any more but this predator is new to me. Try google for Rapa rapa

Hope someone else can help. I woill do as much as I can in my spare toime to see if they breed or not.

James

[oakwell]

General Husbandry: Has a temperature range of 72 to 83°F (22 - 28°C). This snail eats only Sarcophyton, Lobophyton leather corals, and Sinularia finger leather corals. They bore into their column while the coral specimen is small and eat the coral from the inside out. Evidence of an internal snail may be the coral body turning yellow and no polyp extension. A close examination of the coral body may result in a healed incision. Pushing in on the site of the incision may result in the coral body breaking open and revealing the snail inside. If so, remove the snail, flush the open wound with freshwater if possible, or swabbing the area with some Lugol's


HERES SOME MORE INFO I HAVE FOUND SAYTS IT ONLY EATS SPECIFIC CORALS

[Macca]

More images

http://www.topseashells.com/rz.php?ref=TS26625

http://www.topseashells.com/rz.php?ref=TS26624

James

[Macca]

I think this has been the problem with your Sinularia Sp corals Darren. I am glad you found it. Cant find much more on it. Not sure if it only eats inside the coral or it also sucks up the coral flesh from outside as well.

James

[oakwell]

nice1 james appreciate yer time hopefully he was a solo pilot and thats the end of my problems....

[Tangman]

Hi Daz Glad you seem to have found the cause of your corals demise m8, lets hope this is an only one. Eric

[Gillybaby]

OMG :eek: Sounds horrible. I'll keep my fingers crossed that it was the only one in your tank and that's your problem sorted. Well done for finding it.

[oakwell]

i am so glad i decided to keep the bit of rock the coral was on now otherwise might have never noticed it

[Pinkfish]

Thats great that you have now found the problem affecting your Corals, hope they all heal and make a speedy recovery

Mike

[JAMBON]

Added Live rock to my new tank on saturday, some lovely pieces, lots of growth on them. Some Xenia, polyps and a leather mushroom. All the other stuff seems to be going well apart from the mushroom. When it was first introduced it was upright, now it has gone all limp and discoloured. I noticed this morning that the area were it is touching the live rock has now turned white and looks as though it is decaying. What should i do? leave and hope it comes back to life or remove it?? HELP!!!

[Kev]

Daz

Nice one, I am hopeful you have caught the culprit and halted the decline.

Jambon, thats one freebie that not going to make it more in all likelihood. Not uncommon on new live rock, I personally would just leave it. All part of the process.

Kev

[oakwell]

:eek: ...found another!!!........a smaller one in my frag tank cant find any in my main system so hoping i have transfered the problem to my smaller frag tank where i can monitor it however i am concerned cos this one was alot smallerand in a 130 gal system i would have prob nver found it!

The only good sign is that the snail was moving around in light so at least that would help me find them if any are still in my main system.

My corals in the main system seem to be doing ok at the minute so will keep monitoring!