Slime algae/ cynobacteria advice

[newkidfish]

Hi all
Back of holiday to find substrate on daughter's tank covered in brownish green slime like algae. All fish survived so I guess we are lucky this is the only problem we have.

I have heard of a product called Algone that is for this problem, has anyone used it or can advise if will work?

Alternatively, can anyone recommend anything else, not keen to use antibiotic type treatments as don't want to kill the good bacteria (gosh this sounds like a yoghurt advert).

Thanks for any help ps like the new site format

[Blue]

Is this a newish set-up?
maybe this will help.
http://www.garf.org/reefjanitors.html
this combined with mexican red tipped hermits.
kindest regards chris.

[SteveS]

hi....i'd be against putting anything in the tank thats chemical based, brown/green sounds like diatoms where as cyano is more red, is there any air bubbles on the rocks? thats a sign if cyano too.

whats your flow like? also lighting length times? is it a newish tank?

steve

[Reefer]

Hi Marine tech
I have just read the link regarding the red cyano slime algae and to be honest it looks to me just to be an advert for their critters. I have no doubt that more clean up crew will help keep waste matter off the rocks etc. But I have never heard of anything dining out on the old red slime algae. Does anything eat it? If they do I want some!!

[Blue]

You didn't see the read about different algae types?
mexican red tip hermits eat red cyano here and there.
What i've found best best is just to have good skimming and keep sucking it out with every water change. It goes in time.
Kindest regards Chris.

[newkidfish]

Tank was set up in April this year, the algae is slime like on the coral sand and if poked air bubbles are released from underneath, does this mean it's Cyno? I thought that diatom was the brown powdery stuff that is easily scraped off the glass.
Lights are two T8s one marine glow antinic and one power glow, flow rate is provided by fluval 305 canister filter (pump output rating 1000 litres an hour) and by Jewel internal filter (outflow unknown) - both set up to cross midtank.
We have also had an explosion of hair algae, which is currently being harvested when tank cleaned (subject to access-as have agressive black & white clown that eats arms and fingers)

[stegoodall]

I had some cyano and got some red leg mexican hermits from SteveC and they helped, I also used some Kent Poly-Ox, using a syringe i squirted the dose straight onto the cyano http://www.marinedepot.com/md_viewItem.asp?idproduct=KM3333

I think they both helped.

[newkidfish]

Does the kent poly-ox have antibiotics in, or other nasties that may leech into live rock or kill corals? Not keen to put chemicals into tank if can help it. will try and get photo of tank tomorrow when daughter at school and post (it looks real bad)

[Reefer]

OK thanks Chris, just upgraded my skimmer and got another pump so it will go im sure
Cheers

[SteveS]

Tank was set up in April this year, the algae is slime like on the coral sand and if poked air bubbles are released from underneath, does this mean it's Cyno? I thought that diatom was the brown powdery stuff that is easily scraped off the glass.
Lights are two T8s one marine glow antinic and one power glow, flow rate is provided by fluval 305 canister filter (pump output rating 1000 litres an hour) and by Jewel internal filter (outflow unknown) - both set up to cross midtank.
We have also had an explosion of hair algae, which is currently being harvested when tank cleaned (subject to access-as have agressive black & white clown that eats arms and fingers)


its hard to say without pics, but i think diatoms usually pass in the first 3months....maybe early stages of cyano..but easily beatable. how about an extra powerhead located lower down so it blows the algae off without distubing the sand? usually hair algae and cyano are hand in hand and is a tough nut but crackable

a few q's

1.what your daily lighting length?
2.plenty of clean up crew? 1 per gallon
3.do you use/wash frozen food in ro water?
4.phosphate level?
5.rowasphos in your canister or internal filters?

steve

[newkidfish]

Steve, daughter gone to bed so can't give answers to all questions, need to do usual tests on water quality, so will get back to you on that tomorrow.
Cleanup crew for 40gallon tank currently 5 turbo snails, one blue & one red legged hermit. Plan to get some cerith and nerite snails and some mexican hermits when reef critters get them in (need clean up crew for my new tank too).
I don't currently wash frozen food, just defrost and then feed, should I be rinsing in RO first?
Haven't used rowaphos, but LFS told me to use 'cleanwater' filter media - claylike granuels they said would do same job is this so or should I get rowaphos?
Lights are on for about 12 hours a day (from memory 10am - 10pm).
Is it true also that carbon leaching can increase levels of Cyno?

[SteveS]

Steve, daughter gone to bed so can't give answers to all questions, need to do usual tests on water quality, so will get back to you on that tomorrow.
Cleanup crew for 40gallon tank currently 5 turbo snails, one blue & one red legged hermit. Plan to get some cerith and nerite snails and some mexican hermits when reef critters get them in (need clean up crew for my new tank too).
I don't currently wash frozen food, just defrost and then feed, should I be rinsing in RO first?
Haven't used rowaphos, but LFS told me to use 'cleanwater' filter media - claylike granuels they said would do same job is this so or should I get rowaphos?
Lights are on for about 12 hours a day (from memory 10am - 10pm).
Is it true also that carbon leaching can increase levels of Cyno?

thats ok, a few pointers in your post if thats ok...you need to know your phosphate level, hair algae feeds on phosphate (po4) leave it and it grows, pull it out and it grows elsewhere, heres where your clean up crew come in, blue legs eat hair algae spores but not the algae itsself, so pull it out and increase the blue legs. you might have a po4 reading of 0 but plenty of hair algae if you get my drift, its a visious circle but beatable.

put some spare shells in the tank when you increase your hermit population, they sometimes like to move house and find turbo snails the perfect host.

you should wash your frozen food in ro water, i defrost mine in a teastrainer then rinse it in ro.frozen food is full of po4 back to the above!

not sure what cleanwater is, but rowas or antiphos is a good media for your canister or internal,

i would reduce lighting times to about 10hours per day, as back to hair algae loves the blue light spectrum in the tube

carbon: are you adding/buffering carbon? leaching back from where?

cyano probs are caused by excessive nutrients and lack of flow imo...now pass you over to someone more knowledgeable...

steve

[Blue]

OK thanks Chris, just upgraded my skimmer and got another pump so it will go im sure
Cheers

Hope it goes well. keep us posted.
regards chris

[celtic fish]

hmm this brown stuff i still get it 3 years after setting up this tank,but it tends to go as quick as it comes,good skimming and water changes is the key

[Blue]

Will wait to see pics. Sounds like cyano.
As far as the Kent product you ask about, I have not tried it myself.
I have always opted for natures way and beat it at all times with good water quality and cyphoning out during every water change with a smaller diameter pipe, so you can take more time and care getting it out.You may have to do this for some weeks, but don't let it beat you, it will go trust me.
Steve has also given some good pointers.

chris.

[tonyponty]

hi ya i had this after my tank had been running for about 10 weeks kept trying to syphon it out but was just as bad the next day so just left it and it went its self after a few weeks

[newkidfish]

Ok all sorry didn't get back to you all yesterday, but thought it important to pull out all hair algae and syphon of slime (took me best part of day to sort - ok my day only started at lunchtime as still have jet lag oops!)
So Here are the test readings:
Temp 26, salinity 1.023 (fish only system), Amm 0 Nitrite 0 nitrate 5ppm phosphate 0.1ppm, KH 143.2ppm calcium 440ppm PH 7.8 (taken am - need to raise this - before went away range was 8.2-8.4).
Will wash frozen food from now on, and plan to increase cleanup crew when james gets new stock in. Will also look into increasing bottom flow (gosh that sounds rude).
Picures of slime and hair hopefully will be attached - if I can work out how.

[SteveS]

cant really see the hair algae in the first pic, but that is defo cyano in the second.
all good readings, but the po4 is probably a false one due to the hair algae feeding off it.this is where the fun begins now all you have to do is tip the balance in your favour!

keep pulling the algae out by hand, this will cause the po4 to rise, which will see more hair algae popping up, rip that out aswell now you have to combat the souce of the po4, as said before wash your food, keep your water changes up(check po4 reading of your ro water and your salt mix before w/change). increase your blue legs, as you said, and in a few weeks it will just go!

re the cyano, a p/head will do the trick with that, or reposition your internal for the time been, till you get sorted. sometimes it can get a little dishearting when you need to throw 50quid at your tank just to make it look right!

hth a bit and thats just from my experiance....others may offer more ideas

steve

[Chris, Reef Ranch]

Brownish slime may be diatoms, it may be dinoflagelate. Cyanobacteria are either black/dark green or burgundy. Dinoflasgelate also acquire bubbles in the slime during the day.

If you have no phosphate or silicate (both these pollutants have to be undetectable) then it is likely to be low oxygen and pH that is causing the problem. Read part I of my current article in Marine World to redress this problem.

Chris

[celtic fish]

by the powers ! your a clever lot

[newkidfish]

Thanks all for advice, have today been to LFS and purchased some Rowaphos (not cheap stuff ehh) and a powerhead to place near bottom of tank.
Have also spoken to James at Reefcritters and he is doing me a fantastic deal on some mexican hermits, some cortex's and a mexican turbo....thanks james cant wait for my delivery on tuesday.
Now washing frozen food in RO too.

[SteveS]

nice one newkid...any updates?

one thing to consider is the first batch of rowas will sap the phosphates in a couple of days then need replacing...the next batch will last a little longer and so on...

steve

[oakwell]

fingers crossed it works for you

[newkidfish]

Update, cleaned tank again and removed as much hair algae & cyno as possible, put rowphos in cannister filter (in an old pair of tights-cleaned of course!), will change in a few days as you suggest. Critters are due Tuesday , so hopefully they will munch through what ever remains. Will letyou know how it goes.