hello everyone...

[dave&gem]

Evening everyone,

Thought we'd say a quick hello to everyone on here. We've just invested in tank and stand bought off ebay. We actually bought it off one of the board members, a9kwaf. for those that know him and those that dont, he seems a really top bloke. met his wife and children who seemed just as tip top as he did :)

gave me some good advice and gave me the link to this site. said you're all a nice bunch on here and willing to help a novice. he'd better have meant that as we are abit new to this marine lark. do we have to put water in the tank before we get fish? :)

No doubt we'll be posting on here quite abit giving you all updates and progress on how the tank is coming on. So far we've got it sat next to our tropical tank filtering away a treat. The tropical tank now looks tiny!

Well we picked up the tank up from him (we're Grimsby folk so only half hrs drive across the water). I had to borrow a van from a friend to pick the tank up. nice of him to say that it had no tax just as I was about to set off. safe to say every time I saw a police car on the way to Hull, I bobbed me knickers. :eek:

got the tank back home and in the house. then comes the expensive bit. went to out local marine shop, and bought the basics we needed to start up. 130 quid later we've got a filter, sand, salt and a heater. got a skimmer on order and priced up some lights so we can keep coral. think the lights will have to come later on though. any recomendations for cheap lights much appreaciated. also need to get some air pumping into the tank, so thats something else we'll be investing in.

got all the clobber home and thought it would be nice and easy. about 15 buckets of water later, I thought we'd be quickly underway. not a chance... the filter gave me more grief than gem :p could I heck as get it working. finally after prodding, nearly throwing, dismantling and putting back together, it worked. I'm now sat looking at an empy tank, getting impatient after only an hour of having it setup! hehe.

getting some live rock as soon as we can. how soon can we put this in a new tank? then hope to start introducing a few fish in about 4-6 weeks.

anyway, think we've gone on enough. It will be me or Gem that posts on here, so whichever it is, we'll make sure we put on the bottom of the post.

hope to get to know a few of you on here. god knows you'll hear from us wether you like it or not!

Dave & Gem

[mousehunter22]

Welcome to the reef!!!:D

[ROB]

Welcome Dave & Gem,

We love pic's and e love posts the people on here are fantastic apart from Rob, Oh thats me DOH,

Enjoy your stay,

Ro.

[Tetley]

Hi Gem & Dave,

Welcome to Reef Corals. :):)

Hope you enjoy your stay with us. :):)

The basics for a sucessful marine tank are Live Rock (L/R), good water movement around the rock and a decent skimmer.

Lights can geared to what corals you wish to keep.

Don't forget "the only daft question is the question you don't ask" :D

ATB

[chinapattern]

Welcome. I was in your position just over a year ago. Forking out loads of money for equipment and dying to get it all going. As anyone on here will tell you - take it very slow. Patience is definitely a virtue with marines.

Most important thing - get some live rock. Macca has some and he'll give you a good deal. He is just about to open his outlet in Harrogate in the next few weeks. He sells top gear, especially clean up crew and will post if you don't fancy a day out.

Once you get your tank cycling (piece of prawn does nicely) you will be able to sit and study your rock. You'll be surprised at what you get for your money! :)

Keep us informed and we like piccies.

Good luck

Jenny

[ROB]

Hi again Dave & Gem,

Did you fill with RO water or tap water?

as far as lights and a skimmer how big is the tank PM me may be able to help,

and believe me equipment wise you have just scratched the surface LOL,
But hey we are all m8s on here and will help all we can.

Rob.

Oh yes and as Jenny says Slowly is the best way,

[dave&gem]

Well we were advised at the shop near us that we are fine to start off with tap water. we have treated it with amquel. apparently this should sort clorine levels out etc, but best to keep testing the water and see how its going. also been advised to get some of the pre-treated water that they sell when doing the first couple of 20% water changes as this will help it along. hopefully we're being given the right advice as we're none the wiser with it all really. its a totally different kettle of fish compared to tropical (pun was intened, but I'm not a fish boiler).

the tank is about a 101x41x40. think it works out at about 160 litres. advice on pricing and everything would be great as again its something we're not used to and dont want to get ripped off. we should be pretty luck with everyone from our local shop as they are a family run business and basically survive off a good reputation and word of mouth.

I can imagine that the equipment we have so far is the very very basics. looking as some of your setups on here, they are unbelivable. alot of hard work and alot of serious money gone into them I'm sure. but its an investment we're willing to make.

as Jenny said above as well, Patience will be needed for it to do well. something we have learnt the hard way from our tropical days (we rushed into buying too many fish too soon and found that they were soon swimming on their sides :(

regards water movement, is this achieved with some kind of water pump? i've seen in a few tanks what looks like 2 spot lights in either corner of the tank. i know they arent lights, but look like they should be. are they some way of moving water around?

think we will nip and see Macca. I've heard some very good things about his shop so I'm sure we'll both be eager to visit. how soon can I add live rock into my tank? not sure on that one really.

Dave

[Tetley]

Hi Dave,

Ist get a decent LFS (local fish shop). Tap water is not recommended, it will cause you a load of heartache.

Most reef systems run on salted RO water, you can invest in a RO unit from RO-MAN a sponser on the site, the intial outlay may seem high, but it will pay you back a hundered times over.

Water movement is achived by the use of power heads (P/H), the prefered choice would be Maxi jets or Tunze nano.

If I was you, I would pop in to Blue Zoo in Hull and have a chat with Chris or Ian, they will show you how to set up a marine tank.

Please go and see them, you will be made welcome and get the right advice.

ATB

[mousehunter22]

Get the LR in ASAP as this is your bio filter and will get the tank underway a whole lot quicker,as for equipment check out the hardware section on here there is always people selling good second hand equipment;)

Water movement in marines is the big key to success not enough and you will get algae problems and dead spots will cause detris build ups ect,you dont have to buy expensive equipment to get good flow i use seio's and find them very good,the idea is 20x tank volume per hour

HTH lee

[MR Teee]

I would agree with Tetley, Find another shop to go to! Because the advise you are getting from your current one is very poor.

Before you do anything I would suggest draining the tank, and getting it filled with some RO. You will be in some problems down the road from using tap water.

Sorry if this sound a bit drastic, but the quality of the water is the most important aspect of a marine system.

[MR Teee]

I would suggest going to Blue Zoo aquatics in Hull and have a chat with the guys there. Find out about the basics if running a tank, have a good look at the show tank, and ask on here if there is anything you dont understand.

[Tetley]

I would suggest going to Blue Zoo aquatics in Hull and have a chat with the guys there. Find out about the basics if running a tank, have a good look at the show tank, and ask on here if there is anything you dont understand.

Snap. :D:D:D

[dave&gem]

sorry to sound thick. whats the defenition of RO? how much would it cost to fill my tank with RO water?

and whats an LR mouse hunter? like you say, its all about getting the right advice. being new to it all we wouldnt know what good and bad advice was to start with.

dave

[ROB]

sorry to sound thick. whats the defenition of RO? how much would it cost to fill my tank with RO water?

and whats an LR mouse hunter? like you say, its all about getting the right advice. being new to it all we wouldnt know what good and bad advice was to start with.

dave
RO water is about £3.00 for five gallon but can be cheaper?

LR is live rock your main bio filter as mouse hunters says

[Tetley]

Hi,

Just to add to Rob's post, the investment in a RO (Reverse Osmosis) unit is a VERY GOOD investment.

Live rock (l/R) can be purchased from Blue Zoo or Macca or indeed 2nd hand (cheaper) from anybody who is breaking down a tank.

ATB

[dave&gem]

my maths isnt too good here...

if I've got a 160 litre tank, how much would it cost me to fill with RO water.

I'll check out how much the RO units are as well.

course LR means live rock! durrr. just a case of me getting used to the short terms for all these. looking forward to getting some LR in asap.

[ROB]

Hi,

Just to add to Rob's post, the investment in a RO (Reverse Osmosis) unit is a VERY GOOD investment.

Live rock (l/R) can be purchased from Blue Zoo or Macca or indeed 2nd hand (cheaper) from anybody who is breaking down a tank.

ATB
Yes I agree with Tetley my RO unit cost me about £100 ish that included a TDS meter so the savings are as follows £3.00 each time I fill one container that can be three a week some weeks when doing water change plus petrol to and from LFS so not long before start making savings also a mate of mine keeps Discus so he buys water from me so that helps with upkeep a bit LOL,

ROB.

[Tetley]

my maths isnt too good here...

if I've got a 160 litre tank, how much would it cost me to fill with RO water.

I'll check out how much the RO units are as well.

course LR means live rock! durrr. just a case of me getting used to the short terms for all these. looking forward to getting some LR in asap.

Hi,

Go to Blue Zoo in Hull ask questions - do not put L/R in tank until you have drained tank and refilled with salted RO or you may be asking for trouble.

If you take your time, and get the right advice 1st time - you will save money, and have a tank that that will give you pleasure for years to come.

Slow down, go see a Reef set up. You will be amazed, filled with awe.

ATB

[dave&gem]

blimey. everything just gets that little bit more complicated. think I'll look at investing in an RO unit. basic recomendation then, is to avoid using tap water completely. just need an idea on how much it will cost to fill a 160 litre tank from my LFS. I know they sell it as they recommended me using it when doing water changes. would introducing the RO water into my exising water over the next few weeks balance things out? or is it advised to simply start again and drain my water and add all RO water from scratch.

[dave&gem]

Hi,

Go to Blue Zoo in Hull ask questions - do not put L/R in tank until you have drained tank and refilled with salted RO or you may be asking for trouble.

If you take your time, and get the right advice 1st time - you will save money, and have a tank that that will give you pleasure for years to come.


ATB

think we'll go pay them a visit tomorrow then. would you say we should replace the sand as well? or can this be saved?

if only we knew all this in the first place. best way to learn though I suppose.

[ROB]

my maths isnt too good here...

if I've got a 160 litre tank, how much would it cost me to fill with RO water.

I'll check out how much the RO units are as well.

course LR means live rock! durrr. just a case of me getting used to the short terms for all these. looking forward to getting some LR in asap.

Your tank holds approx 41 gall US so thats approx 8 X 5 gall containers to start see now how your own RO "Reverse Osmosis" unit becomes a money saver,

ROB.

[Tetley]

think we'll go pay them a visit tomorrow then. would you say we should replace the sand as well? or can this be saved?

if only we knew all this in the first place. best way to learn though I suppose.

The sand can be reused. :)

If you speak to Chris or Ian at BlueZoo, ask them about a BB (bare bottom tank) there show tank should give you an idea. :):)

Decide which way you wish to go (tank with a substrate or not) the choice is your to make, THere are advantages and disadvantages to each method.

Like I said, ask, and ask again, if you are not sure well ask again. :D:D

What ever you do, listen, digest - and guess what if not sure - ask again.

If you take your time now, and do it right, then you and Gem will be able to sit back, glass of wine in hand and watch your piece of the ocean - bliss. :):)

[ROB]

The sand can be reused. :)

If you speak to Chris or Ian at BlueZoo, ask them about a BB (bare bottom tank) there show tank should give you an idea. :):)

Decide which way you wish to go (tank with a substrate or not) the choice is your to make, THere are advantages and disadvantages to each method.

Like I said, ask, and ask again, if you are not sure well ask again. :D:D

What ever you do, listen, digest - and guess what if not sure - ask again.

If you take your time now, and do it right, then you and Gem will be able to sit back, glass of wine in hand and watch your piece of the ocean - bliss. :):)

Totally agree ,

How do I know this Because I did listen and now enjoy

Rob.

[callum_parsons]

hi and welcome to the reef:)

[stegoodall]

welcome to the site, hope you get your tank setup soon and it all goes smoothly!

[johnl69]

Hi dave & Gem and welcome to RC

Blue Zoo are doing RO water for £1 for 5 gallons so for a 160ltr tank it will cost £7.
As for the sand if its not live sand then it can be washed and saved but I wouldn't put it in your tank until you have your live rock in.
You also said that you had bought a "filter" do you meen a canister filter if so I wouldn't use that for biolodgical filtration as this will cause you problems from the start you could use this for rowaphos (phosphate remover) or activated carbon.
Are you planning on installing a sump? if so you may be better off doing it now before you fill the tank with water this will also save you some hassle in the future.:D

[stegoodall]

i agree with john, i have never had a sump but i hate not having one. i feel that it would make it a lot easier if i did have one i.e. hides skimmer and heaters etc

[Tangman]

Hi and welcome to RC,what can i say as its all been said. You have fallen into the trap that most people do when they first set up a system and get duff advice from a LFS, but if you are not sure ask on here you will always get an answer.:D Twiggy

[Mark J]

Hi guys, and welcome to the forum :D

Im in Cleethorpes, so it's nice to see another local setting up a marine system.

Let me guess which LFS said it would be ok to use tap water (was it by any chance the one that is closed Wednesdays and has hutches etc out on the front not toooo far from the Ice house?)

I agree with everyone and definately DONT recommend using tap water, even with the additives to remove the chlorines etc as when I first setup, I did that and ended up struggling for ages with hair algae etc.

Im currently in the process of upgrading my current tank to a 5x2x2 system (just need to actually GET the new tank etc lol!)

So if there's any help you need locally, just give us a shout and i'll see what I can do.

Mark.

[moorish]

hi dave,welcome to reef corals.i would definately refil the tank with ro water,then get it mixed with salt.then start to put in some live rock asap.derek

[MR Teee]

Why you shuld not use tapwater!

What's so important about water then?

Marine fish have a reputation for being temperamental in comparison to other types of fish. The sea is the most stable Eco-system on the planet and is able to keep its water parameters perfect for the creatures that live there. Your tank will become a mini Eco-system of its own, so it is only fair to replicate the environment as closely as possible by using only the best quality water you can. After all, why spend hundreds if not thousands of pounds on setting up your tank, to use water which falls far short of the natural properties of sea water.

Natural Sea Water (NSW) contains hundreds of elements that are suspended throughout the water column and are essential to the well being of the animals that live there. Elements such as Iodine, Magnesium, Calcium, Iron, Strontium, Boron, Potassium etc. These levels rarely change by substantial amounts meaning these creatures are used to specific consistent water parameters day in day out.


What does tap water contain that's so bad?

You may think that ordinary tap water is quite ok to use as we drink and bathe in it every day, but in reality you will find no end of un-desirables that, while not harmful to us in the doses that are present, they simply aren't suited to a reef tank.
When farmers grow crops they use fertiliser to help them grow. These fertilisers contain high concentrations of Nitrates and Phosphates, when it rains the fertiliser can get washed in to our local water supply. These are not removed because they're not harmful to us but in a reef tank they can be devastating. One of the constant battles for the reefer is removing these two unwanted organics, we certainly don't need to be adding them directly.

Whilst the water is being piped through to your home its likely to pick up other elements from the pipes its travelling through as well such as copper, a metal which has catastrophic effects in a reef tank, fatal to invertebrates it kills anything living within an exoskeleton. The quality of your water will also vary dependant upon the time of the year meaning it would be very difficult to make consistent batches of saltwater for your water changes.

All this means is that the fish, coral and inverts you're planning on keeping, put simply, are not used to having these unnecessarily added elements present. this means they're not good elements to be adding to your tank. For example ammonia, nitrites and nitrate are all toxic to marine life in varying degrees and most invertebrates are incredibly sensitive to copper. The tiniest amount in your tank is enough to kill them. Algae feeds on phosphates and nitrates, the higher these levels are, the worse your algae situation can be (see pictures) which has a knock on result and will make your PH levels unstable.

The manufacturers of the major brand salt labels we commonly use, design the salt to be used with RO water. The reason they do this, is because our tap water supply is so inconsistent, it would be impossible for them to know how much of each of the trace elements to put in to the salt so that when we mix our water, the results would have the same properties as natural sea water. You would never be able to keep your water parameters stable, which is your No.1 objective really. This leads us to Reverse Osmosis.....


So what about Reverse Osmosis (RO)?

Reverse osmosis is basically when water is passed under pressure through a series of prefilters, to remove particles and chlorine, and finally a membrane designed to allow water molecules through but trap everything else present. An RO unit on average, will remove 92 - 97% of the dissolved solids that your water contains. To remove the remaining dissolved solids, most quality RO units will have a DI (De-Ionization) pod at the end. This will then, as previously mentioned, give you pure water for mixing your chosen salt with. The DI filter is capable of polishing 100% of the dissolved solids out of your water on its own, but it's costly, hence the reason a mixture of filters are used.

How do we measure the quality of our water?

To monitor the quality of our water we use a TDS (total dissolved solids) meter. TDS meters measure the amount of organic or in-organic substances that are present in water. The higher the TDS reading you get, the more unwanted properties your water contains.
There are 2 main types of TDS meters that are used by marine keepers, 'hand held' and 'in-line', both are very affordable costing about £15 - £25. The in-line meters are preferable if you have your own RO unit. These meters normally have a before and after reading, meaning you can see what the TDS is of your water before the filtration process and the end result allowing you to replenish your DI resin in plenty of time, and check your membrane is working ok.
Hand held meters can be used when you're buying your RO water from your local fish shop, or producing your own.

How much will it cost me to produce my own RO water?

The most cost effective way to use RO water is to buy your own unit. For example a 50gpd (gallon per day) four stage RO unit with the added DI resin pod should cost under £100.
Most LFS will sell RO water as well, but the quality of the water will vary from shop to shop, most LFS wont filter the water through a DI unit meaning the water will more than likely be of a lesser quality than if you owned your own unit. Buying RO water from your LFS, is not really cost effective either, costs average between £2 - £4 for 25ltrs. So you can see after a year of buying water from your LFS, you will have probably spent more money than if you were to buy your own RO unit, for water that's of a poorer quality.

There are running costs to a RO unit, the prefilters which protect the membrane have to be changed at regular intervals, recommended every 6 months dependant on use. But these very occasional costs still add up to being much cheaper than buying your water. It isn't easy to work out exactly how much say 25 ltrs would cost, there is just so many factors involved, but one major manufacturer (RO-MAN) says that working off some standards that have had to be set, it works out about 63p per 25 ltrs of RO.

Would it not be cheaper to just use tap water???

At this stage is may appear that tap water is the cheaper option over buying or producing your own RO water, but in the long run this will not be the case. To counter-act the poor quality water being used, more equipment will likely be needed to reverse the effects of your tap water, such as a phosphate reactor. Add to that the monthly if not fortnightly renewal costs of the phosphate removal media, and the fact you will need certain additives to balance your water parameters it is not a cheap option. In the long run, RO water is cheaper, and the better option for your tanks inhabitants.

[dave&gem]

Hi guys, and welcome to the forum :D

Im in Cleethorpes, so it's nice to see another local setting up a marine system.

Let me guess which LFS said it would be ok to use tap water (was it by any chance the one that is closed Wednesdays and has hutches etc out on the front not toooo far from the Ice house?)

I agree with everyone and definately DONT recommend using tap water, even with the additives to remove the chlorines etc as when I first setup, I did that and ended up struggling for ages with hair algae etc.

Im currently in the process of upgrading my current tank to a 5x2x2 system (just need to actually GET the new tank etc lol!)

So if there's any help you need locally, just give us a shout and i'll see what I can do.

Mark.

I'm not going to advertise who gave the duff advice as I dont want my windows putting through. hehe. great to see other locals on here as well then.

been given some good advice from everyone. some interesting stuff and certainly alot for us to think about. I'm taking my time with things and not rushing too much. from doing some reading, there are many different ways of keeping marine, and many are probably not the way for us to go down. we're trying to keep things as basic as possible at first. dont want to get bogged down keeping things completely biological. we're going to get the water changed, but make sure we keep the water filtered properly and keep it nice and clean. if we get off to a good start with a basic setup, we will move on and progress. but for now, keep it simple, and keep it alive is the main goal. but we've got all the time in the world so we're not rushing things.

thanks for all the advice everyone :)

[Electric Monk]

Don't forget "the only daft question is the question you don't ask" :D



Don't get me started again.....:D

[Electric Monk]

Welcome Dave&Gem

[dollydip]

welcome dave and gem as above listen to these guys no duff advice here as these guys have nothing to gain apart from you getting the right advice and enjoying your reef and all it being a tip top environment for all that live there ive followed their advice and am over the moon with the way things have turned out

[Electric Monk]

Check out http://www.ro-man.com/ for Reverse Osmosis equipment.

Great stuff and great service.

[Mark J]

At least youve started on the track simply by joining the forum :D
Feel free to give me a shout whenever you feel you might need a bit of help etc, as will try to help how I can.

[dave&gem]

Check out http://www.ro-man.com/ for Reverse Osmosis equipment.

Great stuff and great service.

bene having a look on there. dont think I can quite afford the kit at the minute. buying my skimmer next week which is about 70 quid so cant really justify the layout for the RO kit as yet. maybe something that I will look at in the long run though. my LFS is only a 2 minute walk from my house so easy enough just to nip round to them.

I've spoken to my LFS this morning. they agree with everything said on here, and also given me advice of their own. I think the best advice so far is understanding what sort of level and complexity we want to keep the tank at. suit the equipment and setup around that to start with and add to it slowly. basically we need to learn how to walk , before trying to run.

[Electric Monk]

Just being totally nosey, what type of Skimmer are you getting?

[a9kwaf]

hi dave & Gem
:)
glad to see you you found the site.

When i was talking about marine tech well that is now blue zoo
i like the new name but did not know it had changed till after you had left sorry.

as i said when u came round people are spot on on here just soak up the good advice

kwaf and carly

[mfcfan]

hi dave&gem welcome to reef corals:D

steve :)

[dave&gem]

Just being totally nosey, what type of Skimmer are you getting?

Cant remember the exact make and model. taking in that much info at the minute its hard to keep track.

Its a skimmer that will fit straight into a Juwel tank. A prism filter was what he called it in the shop I think. I will find out exact model and everything. basically we've gone for the one we have as it slots nicely into the top corner of the tank and will do just the job for what we need at the moment.

he's getting a delivery in the shop on wednesday so I'm going to have a look at a couple he's put aside for me then.

[Tetley]

Cant remember the exact make and model. taking in that much info at the minute its hard to keep track.

Its a skimmer that will fit straight into a Juwel tank. A prism filter was what he called it in the shop I think. I will find out exact model and everything. basically we've gone for the one we have as it slots nicely into the top corner of the tank and will do just the job for what we need at the moment.

he's getting a delivery in the shop on wednesday so I'm going to have a look at a couple he's put aside for me then.

Think hard before you purchase a prism skimmer. Ask for peoples opinion on them - you may change your mind. ;);)

[Mark J]

Ive got a prism on my little tank (didnt buy it, came with the tank) and its been nothing but a pain in the rear! always having to re-prime it and the surface skimmer cup bit is a ball ache especially if you dont have an auto topup where the main tank level keeps constant as then your moving it all the time to keep it skimming the surface scumm off etc.

[dave&gem]

any recomendations on skimmers then people? dont want to spend the earth, but at the same time want one that will do the business.

[Mark J]

I'm a bit out of touch with the new skimmers about etc, but I used to use an Aquamedic turbofloter 1000 multi and it was a great skimmer (still running strong on my mates setup in a 6x2x2 system(my old tank))

Theyre not too badly priced I dont think nowadays, but theres also the TMC V2 skimmers which are supposed to be really good from what ive been told (but never seen one running so cant say for sure)

[MR Teee]

Deltec MCE300 would be your best bet.

Other than that a second hand MCE600.

If you can keep up the water changes, then there is the possiblity of going skimmerless. (not what I would recommend though)

[Pinkfish]

Welcome to the site guys enjoy your stay and remember relax and take your time, ps dont forget the salt or a refractometer - measures the amount of salt in water

[sinaarrgghh]

LOL is your head battered yet? It's all good advice and to add to the skimmer debate I have a deltec mce600 that I think is ace. I got it from ebay and it cost me £47. I can't say I've seen many that cheap but for £70 you'll get a superb example I'm sure.

[stevieh]

hello and welcome to reef corals:)

[Blue]

Hi, welcome aboard. Anything you need at all, please don't hesitate to ask. You can pm me any time. The Deltec MCE300 is ok, but I really like the TMC V2 400, it is all down to personal preferance:). I hope you enjoy your stay on here.
Kindest regards Chris;):):)

[slinkyslink]

Hi, and welcome to you both, not sure if you have got your rock yet but if not I noticed an advert in the hull daily mail this week someone selling live rock. This is the no. 07835 149122 or you can go on the hull daily mail web site and go on stuff 4 sale type in live marine rock. HTH
Rich