Black spots????

[mousehunter22]

Ive just been havin a good look in my tank and noticed that my orange shoulder tang has black spots all over his body,now he isnt acting deseased and is eating like a pig as usual but these black spots look quite bad!!!

I cant get a pic of him never mind the spots,other wise id try and show you,has anyone seen this befor????

[mfcfan]

how big are the spots lee? are we talking tiny

steve :)

[mousehunter22]

how big are the spots lee? are we talking tiny

steve :)

yeah very similar to white ones maybe a little bigger but it would be close

[mfcfan]

well lets hope its not black oodinum any signs of the eyes being cloudy

steve :)

[mousehunter22]

well lets hope its not black oodinum any signs of the eyes being cloudy

steve :)

not that i can see but i cant rule it out yet ive only noticed today the spots so i supose there is time yet for it to develop

[moorish]

very similar to whitespot,just treat the same as long as fish is feeding well they will normally go away in about 7-10 days.derek

[Macca]

copied and pasted

Typically a "disease" that is most commonly associated with Tangs and Surgeonfishes, but one that can be contracted by other species as well, what is referred to as Black Spot Disease, Tang Disease or Black Ich is actually caused by an infestation of tiny Genus Paravortex member turbellarian flatworms.

Although parasitic organisms that are much less dangerous and life-threatening, as well as rather easy to get rid of compared to other ich diseases such as Oodinium, Cryptocaryon, and Brooklynella, nonetheless it is a problem that needs to be treated upon recognition to eradicate infected fishes of these parasites.

The Life Cycle of These Worms


Living in the substrate until mature, an adult worm seeks out a host fish.

After feeding for about six days, it falls off into the substrate.

About five days later the worm's body ruptures and releases a new population of young worms, and the cycle starts again, but in larger numbers.
Symptoms to Look For

Once these worms start feeding on a host fish they acquire pigmentation, which causes the appearance of black spots about the size of a grain of salt on the body and fin membranes (view photo).

Worms that freely move about on fish, the spots do not always remain stationary. On light colored fish they are easy to see, whereas on dark colored ones they may go unnoticed at first. Fish will scratch up against objects in an attempt to dislodge the parasites, and if allowed to progress the fish become lethargic, loss of appetite and colors occur, rapid respiration develops, and secondary bacterial infections can invade damaged tissue sites.
Treatment Recommendation

Give all infected fish a freshwater dip, followed by a formalin bath and continue treatment in a QT.

Preventing Reinfestation

Reinfection will occur no matter how effectively the fish have been treated if these parasitic tubellarian worms are not eradicated from the main aquarium. Unfortunately because they can survive for several months without a host, this is often not an easy thing to do, but here are some suggestions.


Leave the main aquarium devoid of all fish for several months.

Young worms live in the substrate and feed on detritus and organic debris until such time they mature and go in search of a fish host. By siphoning up excess organic matter that can build up on the bottom of the aquarium can help to control their numbers.

For fish-only tanks that have no freshwater sensitive invertebrates present, hyposalinity can be applied

[mousehunter22]

cheers james!!!! Now im brickin it going by that it sounds like im gunna lose the lot again!!! Gutted again!!!! think il bin this hobby:(

[Macca]

Speak to Zeus, We are only guessing on what you have said, send some pice to Zeus. If you follow what Campbell suggests I dont think you will lose any fish m8. At least you have spotted this while the fish are still active and feeding and not show any worry signs. I have only copied and pasted have no knowledge on how servere balck spot can get although I did have a customer who got rid with fresh water dipping. The parasites soon jumped off.

James

[Zeus]

Hi,

Just caught up with this. Good article James, I have seen this one before but I believe that Paravortex isn't so common in the hobby.

It could also be Cryptocotyle, which, AFAIK, is much more common, especially on wild caught fish. If it is then there's really nothing to worry about as Cryptocotyle requires molluscs and then birds, as an intermediate host.

Try these pics
http://www.glaucus.org.uk/atherina.htm

Crucial to positive ID is if the spots change position. If you can observe this movement then it's Paravortex.

HTH
Campbell

[mousehunter22]

well ive come home and my orange shoulder is now covered in black spots,My regal is scratching itself on the rocks and most of my other fish are just looking listless:(

Think this spells the end of my fish keeping:(

[Tetley]

well ive come home and my orange shoulder is now covered in black spots,My regal is scratching itself on the rocks and most of my other fish are just looking listless:(

Think this spells the end of my fish keeping:(

Can you not set up a QT tank ?

ATB

[mousehunter22]

Can you not set up a QT tank ?

ATB

No room mate or equipment besides the right up that james put up for me states it takes several months to clear the tank without a host!!!

which means id have to set up another tank for my fish for several months and i just cant do it unfortunatly:(

[stevieh]

gutted for you m8 hope it all works out

[Tetley]

No room mate or equipment besides the right up that james put up for me states it takes several months to clear the tank without a host!!!

which means id have to set up another tank for my fish for several months and i just cant do it unfortunatly:(

Well don't give up M8. It knocks you for six ythis hobby of ours sometimes (you know ;)).

There must be a way to work round the problem (Big plastic vat - maybe?, cheaper, wont tkae up to much room - disposable or storage when not required). You only have to rid the tank and fish once and for good to ensure no future episodes, do it right and you will be grining from ear to ear.

PM Zeus on how to QT and for how long (keep the tank running -you got corals to look at in meantime. ;))

Go on Lee, give it a shot - what you got to lose? - you got heaps to gain. :):):)

ATB

[mousehunter22]

Well don't give up M8. It knocks you for six ythis hobby of ours sometimes (you know ;)).

There must be a way to work round the problem (Big plastic vat - maybe?, cheaper, wont tkae up to much room - disposable or storage when not required). You only have to rid the tank and fish once and for good to ensure no future episodes, do it right and you will be grining from ear to ear.

PM Zeus on how to QT and for how long (keep the tank running -you got corals to look at in meantime. ;))

Go on Lee, give it a shot - what you got to lose? - you got heaps to gain. :):):)

ATB


Cheers for the encoragement mate but if i lose these fish this would be 3 times ive had a wipeout in 6 months!!!!

[mfcfan]

i know you must be feeling really p****d off with it all but hang in there m8

steve

[trik]

Hi lee , do you remember that large blue vat i had in the back of my van, if you have room you could use that.

As far as the fish are concerned try looking out for some Vita succses made by Red sea, add it to the food and leave to soak for half hour, it is full of vit A & C it helps with the imune system, iv done a thread on this before, as long as the fish are eating things should be fine, use a small amount of garlic to encourage them to feed and the Vito will help them 100%, tried it, done it, and it works, well it did for me and no losses.

Good luck buddy.

PS if you want that vat i can bring it up to you or meet you.

Richard

[mousehunter22]

Hi lee , do you remember that large blue vat i had in the back of my van, if you have room you could use that.

As far as the fish are concerned try looking out for some Vita succses made by Red sea, add it to the food and leave to soak for half hour, it is full of vit A & C it helps with the imune system, iv done a thread on this before, as long as the fish are eating things should be fine, use a small amount of garlic to encourage them to feed and the Vito will help them 100%, tried it, done it, and it works, well it did for me and no losses.

Good luck buddy.

PS if you want that vat i can bring it up to you or meet you.

Richard


Thanks very much trik il try the vitamin supliment stuff im sure my lfs sells it!!!
Also thanks for the offer of the vat mate but id have no where to put it,I have a tank stood in my garden but ive just got nowhere to put it:( They are all feeding well so with a bit of luck and some vitamins they will pull through!!

[trik]

Ok mate, the vita stuff is full of amino acids and does help with the imune system, and they will fight it as long as they are eating.

All my fish a 6/7 weeks ago went the same way in my main system, and with feeding 5/6 times a day with food soaked in it with some garlic to make them feed, after 8/9 days all gone , my lippy was the worst , started of with large ish black spots then to whiteish spots then over night it looked like she went through some baking powder, and not well at all, now she and the others are 100% fit and there couler is better than ever.

Richard:cool:

[Zeus]

Hi all,

Is there no-one, no few, close to Lee that could help out with QT for a while.

Lee, How are the fish behaving now? Are they still active and eating? If so
at least get a FW dip going as the article states a FW dip will knock some of them down. Which may give the fish some relief.

Look to the fish first and we can worry about the parasite in the tank later.

You have to try to save the fish. Can anyone close to Lee help?

Campbell

[Tangman]

I would but im about 80 miles away, will your LFS help Lee if you ask him you said you were quite friendly with him. HTH Eric:D

[mousehunter22]

Just a quick update all fish are feeding realy well they are acting like they have a tape worm and are ravenously hungry so im feedin 4 times a day,Im going to have a go at catching them and giving them a FW dip!

How long do you hold the fish in the fresh water? 2mins?

Strangely my cleaners aren't touching the fish (the shrimps or the wrasse) which is unusual because the cleaner wrasse used to always be at the fish especialy when they had white spot!!!

[Tangman]

Hi Lee i would leave them alone and dont stress them further by chasing them around to do a FW dip, if they are feding well make sure that you soak the food over night in good vitamins and feed 4 or 5 times a day. HTH Eric:D

[mousehunter22]

Hi Lee i would leave them alone and dont stress them further by chasing them around to do a FW dip, if they are feding well make sure that you soak the food over night in good vitamins and feed 4 or 5 times a day. HTH Eric:D

I was a bit concerned about that eric i thought being chased around a 6ft tank would stress them further,they all seem healthy apart from the black spots!!! The regal does have a scratch from time to time but not constantly doing it.

[Tangman]

Hi Lee i am not a big lover of dipping fish for WS or BS as the parasites will still be in the tank rock etc so will infest the fish when they go back in. Keep them well fed m8 and i will cross my legs for you. HTH Eric:D