Another high nitrates problem - but my fault I think

[Gillybaby]

As you may recall, I mentioned in a previous thread that we are running a mineral mud eco system that has a lot of particulates in the water column. Someone mentioned that the sand layer above the mud may be too shallow and the mud was being stirred up.

So, last weekend we added another 1" of live sand and 2" of coral gravel (rinsed in RO beforehand). However, our nitrates have gone up almost instantly. Nitrate readings have always between between 5-10 which I was happy with but now they are 25+ and the corals are closing down. The RO being added has a 0 nitrate reading so I can only assume either the sand or the gravel we added last week is leaching nitrates. Or we have seriously upset the balance of our system by covering up the mud layer.

Other than lots of large water changes (which I'm going to do anyway), is there any other way you guys can suggest that we can bring the nitrates down asap. For example, it being an eco mud system, we do have bioballs which have never caused a problem in the past, but would taking these out now help do you think?

Ta

[Blue]

hi,
can you put up your tank speks, equipment , livestock and liverock amounts please so as we can see what we are dealing with please, thanks. :wink:
regards chris

[Gillybaby]

Oooo, now your asking :wink: Here's a copy of the pretty definitive list I put it an earlier thread:

6x2x2 tank with 2 triangular weirs
2 x 250w Arcadia Series 3 metal halides
1 Tunze Stream 6000 & 1 Tunze Stream 6100, both on seperate 7091 controllers
6" fan to keep things cool
70-80kg of liverock on reef racks with closed loop reefclean system beneath powered by OR6500
3kg of liverock rubble
3 bags of livesand for SSB (not sure how much that is in kg)
Corals: loadsa mushies, leathers, zoas, monti's, an acro, euphyllias, bubble and other bits n'bobs
Inverts: GBTA, harlequin serpent star, black brittle star, sandsifter star, orange fromia star, cleaner shrimp & loadsa clean up crew
Fish: 3 yellow tangs, 1 regal tang, 1 orange shoulder tang, 1 juvenile emperor angel, 1 coral beauty angel, 1 orange spot blenny, 1 flame tail blenny, 1 tail spot blenny, 1 cleaner wrasse, 1 sixline wrasse, 2 percula clowns, 1 blue damsel, 1 foxface, 1 citrus goby, 1 steinetz shrimp goby and 1 blue cheek goby

48x15x18 homemade sump with mineral mud and chaeto macro algae (with bioballs before and after mud chamber)
2 x 55w T5s reverse lit
Eheim 1262 return
Deltec APF600 skimmer
Phosban reactor with rowaphos
2 x 300w heaters
RO reservoir
Hallea Ozoniser

The parameters are as follows:

SG: 35ppt (refractometer)
PH: 7.95 am to 8.2 pm (pinpoint meter)
Nitrate: 25+ (Tetra kit & Salifert kit same result) (a few days before it had been about 5)
PO4: 0 (Salifert)
Cal: 400 (Salifert)
Mag: 1260 (Salifert)
dKH: 7 (Salifert)

Can't think of anything else off the top of my head so if I've missed something just ask. The system has been running in its current form for just over a year with the nitrate never being higher than 10 on either kit.

I've actually removed all the bioballs this afternoon just in case. However, after much thought and discussion with my b/f, I'm pretty certain by covering up the original mud and sand layers in the sump, we've effectively blocked off the dentrifying bacteria. I suppose this could account for the sudden rise.

[Blue]

Have you got no pre-filter for the fine particles? I think you may have just disturbed things and you may be right about blocking the bacteria, I think that you all you can do now is watch your nitrate levels and water change accordingly and go steady on the feeding for a bit, not that you need to know that anyway :lol: :lol:
I think it will settle down or I hope so anyway :wink:
Regards Chris

[Chris, Reef Ranch]

Two things spring to mind. I had a customer that used "live sand" in their aquarium and they managed somehow to get a detectable reading of phosphate. Whether or not it was linked to the "live Sand" I cannot say.

I might add that we do not sell it. Things in bags rarely contain the correct species of bacteria that ultimately perform the job of nitrogen cycling. After an hour of turning the flow off through a bio filter, the bacteria start to die. Try putting them in a bag!

However, bacteria when they start to inhabit low to zero oxygen environments in your aquarium will cause a pulse of nitrate to go through the system. It usually hits the roof, over the test kit and then comes back down within 24-48 hours. This might be what you are seeing.

Other things that will cause nitrate and phosphate to rise include over feeding with unwashed food or death and rot down. Both of these have the same effects with respect to a large input of organic matter.

I would thing from what you have said, if you have not had a rot down or over fed then the nitrates will subside within a week. Expect them to get worse before they get better.

Chris

[Gillybaby]

Thanks Chris, we do not over feed and have had no deaths, so what you are saying about the sand does fit and hopefully we are now on the come down phase. We didn't intend to buy livesand but it was the only fine sand my lfs had. Typical :(

[Chris, Reef Ranch]

If you have bio balls in the sump remove them and try to prefilter the sump with a 200 micron filter bag (cost ~£6.50). Don’t put burrowing animals in the DSB and don't disturb it or allow flow to disturb it again.

Chris

[Gillybaby]

I've removed the bioballs now and will order a filter bag. The only creatures I have in the sump are pods and bristleworms (I managed to rescue hundreds of these from the bioballs). As the bristleworms do burrow a bit should I try and remove them or keep them as detritus eaters?

[Chris, Reef Ranch]

You will get them in DSBs anyway. Can't do much about them. Also it is a difficult job to kill them. We will have filter bags toward the end of the coming week. We ran out recently. They are a very popular piece of kit.

Chris

[Gillybaby]

Thanks for all your help Chris. Fingers crossed these measures and the water change I've got ready for later will help get those nitrates back down soon.

[Chris, Reef Ranch]

No need to reply. Don't mean to patronise either but bubble any fresh salt mix for at least 24 hours and don't do more than a 10% at anyone time.

[liquidlogic]

reef ranch is it better to bubble than use a power head ?