Phosphate from carbon

[Robbirch]

I have been having problems with high phosphate and brown algae in my tank. I had been using Interpet Activated Carbon and decided to test it to see if it was the source as i only use RO water and TMC salt for water changes which always tests negative. I placed a teaspoon of the carbon in 1 liter of phosphate RO water and left for 2 hours and when tested the phosphate reading was off the scale. Could this be the reason why I am having trouble keeping polyp colonies they seen to just close up and eventually die. Mushroom polyps just shrink and disappear within a few days!
Needles to say I am no longer using this carbon in my tank.
The other water parameters are all fine.
Ammonia 0ppm
Nitrite 0ppm
Nitrate 5ppm
pH 8.3
Copper 0
Calcium an KH are also within limits.

[Tangman]

Hi Is the Interpet carbon reef carbon if not it will have phosphates in it, the best carbon to use is one dedicated for marines. You need to use a phosphate remover to get your readings down then see how your corals do. HTH. Eric

[Robbirch]

Thanks for the advice i have put an aqua one phosphate mat in a fluval 2 internal filter i will leave it a couple of days and then cut some more to replace it. The carbon was just called interpet activated carbon it has a picture of marines on the front which was why i chose it as i thought it would be ok. I have replaced it with a Bio Chem Zorb bag which states on the tub that it is phosphate free.

[Chris, Reef Ranch]

I have been having problems with high phosphate and brown algae in my tank. I had been using Interpet Activated Carbon and decided to test it to see if it was the source as i only use RO water and TMC salt for water changes which always tests negative. I placed a teaspoon of the carbon in 1 liter of phosphate RO water and left for 2 hours and when tested the phosphate reading was off the scale. Could this be the reason why I am having trouble keeping polyp colonies they seen to just close up and eventually die. Mushroom polyps just shrink and disappear within a few days!
Needles to say I am no longer using this carbon in my tank.
The other water parameters are all fine.
Ammonia 0ppm
Nitrite 0ppm
Nitrate 5ppm
pH 8.3
Copper 0
Calcium an KH are also within limits.



Always use Reef Carbon- New Era (in my opinion the best), Kent or ROWA Carbon. They have very little phosphoric acid in. A Reef aquarium has to be the Ferrari of aquariums. You wouldn't go to a Ford garage for a spare part for a Ferrari! Go to specialists only. Support us we are a dying breed and you will always get the best consistent advice there!

Chris


PS It also sounds like you got your system from a Ford garage too. Sounds like fundamental design problems with the system. Sorry to be so frank, just trying to help! Go to a specialist and discuss what you need to sort out at length.

[MR Teee]

PS It also sounds like you got your system from a Ford garage too. Sounds like fundamental design problems with the system. Sorry to be so frank, just trying to help! Go to a specialist and discuss what you need to sort out at length.

WOW Chris are you pshycic - we don't even know what his system is!

[Chris, Reef Ranch]

Problems with closing polyps etc. Rot down and the like. Trust me give things the right conditions and they will grow. There is something wrong! Doesn't take ESP to know that. Do you have this problem? I think you probably don't because I would have thought you would be set up correctly.

Where's the magic in that Eh? I can also assume that the place the person got the carbon is where they set-up. Remember I see this 10-15 times a day! It's my job. Any establishment that doesn't know that certain carbons contain phosphoric acid that contaminates marine aquariums can't be that knowledgeable despite what it says on the tin.

All meant in a light hearted and friendly manner

Chris

[Chris, Reef Ranch]

Alright 15 times a day may be slightly an exaggeration but probably 3 times a week. Try being on this side of the counter. The advice I gave the person is the very best I could give. If they take notice it will be step forward in them running a pleasant stable and attractive aquarium long-term. May be the person who posted the thread can clear this up. Did they go to the same place they set-up with to buy the carbon? If they didn't I'll eat my shorts or may be some Marmite!

Chris

[MR Teee]

Chris, I'm not questioning your expertise, but one of the principles of problem solving is to identify the facts first.

Rob has only put 10 lines in and already you are saying his system needs modifying.

Lets ge ROb to post some mopre info and attack it from there. We don't want to scare anybody off with bold statement s that might not be justified.

JMHO. (Just My Honest Opinion)

[Robbirch]

Just to clear up any confusion.
my system is based on the Aqua One 620 T 130 L with an overhead trickle filter. there is a deep sand bed of live sand 4" deep. And about 15kg of live rock.
This particular tank has been set up for about 8 months and had nothing in it for the first two other than the sand and live rock. I have suplemented the lighting so it now has about 130 watts of T5 power compacts of marine white and actinic blue lighting fitted into the hood. the livestock has been added gradually and i now have 2 common clown fish,2 blue cheeked gobies, 1 domino damsel, 1 cleaner wrasse, about 15 red and blue legged hermit crabs,1 boxing shrimp, 2 peppermint shrimps, Xenia pulse coral that is spreding everywhere, and another that was sold as xenia but isn't (the one that has a rubbery mat and small greenish star like polyps) that is also spreading. there is also many different types of macro algea most of wehich seems to have sprouted from on the live rock.
The problem is that mushroom polyps and zooanthid polys just seem to fade and die within a couple of weeks. i noticed that the mushrooms have strange almost intestine like bits that start to protrude from the base.
This tank is my first marine tank after a break from keeping a reef tank for about five years which i gave up about ten years ago due to moving house. i have kept pond fish and a small tank with ciclids since then but the lure of marines was to great to hold out any longer.

[MR Teee]

Thanks for that Rob.

Do you run any forms of phosphate removal, such as Rowaphos or Ultiphos.

I also notice that you do not run a skimmer on your tank? is that correct?

The parameter you listed at the top of the page look good, what is your magnesium, calcium and alkalnity?

With problems like the one you are having it is best to have all the information you can get.

Do you use a sump?

[mousehunter22]

my brother inlaw has had the same problem with regards to carbon he bought carbon matting to put into his jewel filter system(not his only filter) but the carbon matting did absolutely nothing except cause high phosphate,in my opinion that will teach him to buy his marine goods from a garden centre rather than pay the extra few quid and get the right stuff from the right people.He was later told buy our local experts that carbon matting is just an impregnated matt which doesnt have a tenth of the effect as propper activated marine carbon. Either way the guys on here have helped me loads so im sure they will help you out Rob. Lee

[Chris, Reef Ranch]

Chris, I'm not questioning your expertise, but one of the principles of problem solving is to identify the facts first.

Rob has only put 10 lines in and already you are saying his system needs modifying.

Lets ge ROb to post some mopre info and attack it from there. We don't want to scare anybody off with bold statement s that might not be justified.

JMHO. (Just My Honest Opinion)

I agree about not scaring anyone but I also don't wish to reassure someone that it will all be alright if it sounds to me that something is wrong. From the short thread it is possible to assess some things. Brown algae tend not to be associated with phosphate because it is generally Dinoflasgelate or diatoms. Green hair algae tend to predominate when phosphate is present. Diatoms tend to be present when you are either using tap water (containing silicate) to top up or the aquarium is new.

The other clue is that polyps, traditionally very easy to keep tend to close when the ORP is low in the aquarium. This would also support the hypothesis that it is din flagellates that are present and not diatoms. Dinoflasgelate can bloom at low ORP. Corals also (particularly leather) start degrading. I have also known this in extreme cases to affect polyps and they rot and regress.

So you can see how someone who knows a little about these sorts of things can use their experiences and experiences of others to assess a problem very quickly. ORP in indicative of a badly designed aquarium or how it is run.

Can I come out of my corner now?

Chris

[Chris, Reef Ranch]

Bit more information, thanks. Do you apply ozone to the aquarium? Do you have a denitrifier on it, a reef clean system, a sand bed or plenum that is getting disturbed, a cover/hood on the aquarium?

Chris

[Chris, Reef Ranch]

my brother inlaw has had the same problem with regards to carbon he bought carbon matting to put into his jewel filter system(not his only filter) but the carbon matting did absolutely nothing except cause high phosphate,in my opinion that will teach him to buy his marine goods from a garden centre rather than pay the extra few quid and get the right stuff from the right people.He was later told buy our local experts that carbon matting is just an impregnated matt which doesnt have a tenth of the effect as propper activated marine carbon. Either way the guys on here have helped me loads so im sure they will help you out Rob. Lee

A person who got what I was driving at in the first place. I tried not to be too specific and went off on one about cars because even retailers who sell marines who aren't very knowledgeable are not trying to get it wrong. I am sure they are trying their best.

Cheers

Chris

[Chris, Reef Ranch]

Pulse xenia should regress and go to snot at low ORP but if secondary oxidants are present from ozone that might explain things. Does that wrasse burry into the substrate at night? If it is the traditional cleaner wrasse, I stopped keeping these many, many years ago because they were difficult to sustain in captivity. I can't remember if they cocoon themselves or burry?

Is the pulse xenia still as prolific as it was?

Chris

[Robbirch]

Thanks for the help everyone. I do have a protein skimmer I dont run an ozone system and there is not a plenum under the sand bed. The cleaner wrasse seems to be thriving ( i have had it a few months now) and it disappears into a hole in the live rock at night where it makes a cocoon to sleep in. the calcuim levels are about 460ppm when i tested them a few days ago and i am now running rowaphos in there and the phosphate is lowering gradually, i suppose it has built up in the rocks and sand. I cannot remember off the top of my head what the KH value was but it is about that which is quoted in all the literature and on the test kit that i use so i dont add anything to try and change that at all.
cheers all
Rob

[Chris, Reef Ranch]

After reading all the clues I think that your mushrooms are getting brown jelly. This is a brown mass that envelopes the mushroom as it degrades. The white stringy stuff is probably the mushroom’s flesh degrading. I have associated this with low ORP and the predominance of sulphide or high levels of CO2. The problem with your polyps might be related, but it might not. It may be an infestation with nudibranchs or something else?

If the aquarium is covered this might be the problem. Complicated pipework such as a reef clean system, cleaning your sand bed, running a calcium reactor during the night or a build up of organics can all contribute to low ORP, pH and DO. Lots of little seemingly insignificant things add up to have a pronounced effect. Please go a see someone that knows about these things. If you get the right advice it probably won't cost you a thing. Most people’s aquariums generally only need tweaking not replacing.

All the best with it