New member.....HELP!!

[JAMBON]

Hi all. I'm a new member...i was told about this forum by a lad called Simon from Marine Tech. I'm a total novice to the marine scene, but i have kept cold water and tropical fish for around 7 years.
I don't want to throw too much money at a marine set up and don't want to get too complicated. I'm just after a simple set up for a community tank.
I've been gathering bits of info from various people and the same name keeps cropping up....Aqua One. I've been looking at there aquastyle range in 850 size (155 litres) doers anyone own one....would anyone recommend one? just after a bit of advice really people....so any info would be fantastic.

cheers :-D

[Tetley]

Hello & welcome.

First think about what you would like to keep (Fish only ? - Fish with Live rock ? - Full reef system ?).

Read lots of books - ask questiions - do not dive in (excuse the pun) until you are happy & confident you can care for the needs of your fish & Corals.

People say get the biggest tank you can afford, this is because a larger volume of water is easier to keep stable than a small one.

My current tank is 40 gallons (so not far away form what you are planning).

I moved from Tropicals to Marines Oct last year - mistakes I made:

Did not get good advice

Did not get decent skimmer.

Do not have proper live rock

Incorrect lighting

As you can see lots of errors - these have slowly been corrected with the help and advice of fellow members on this site.

So get the best you can afford - do not skimp on a skimmer

Take it slow

HTH

Ian

[JAMBON]

Thanks for the advice Ian.

the reason i chose the Aquaone was because i'd been told i could get away with not having a skimmer, and that i could add purigen to the filter system it is supplied with. The only extra thing i was advised to get was a power head to circulate the water more? :roll:

i just want to keep a few fish with a bit of real and bit of fake live rock/coral. have seen some set ups in the tank i'm after and was pretty happy with what i saw.

have i been ill advised?

[Tetley]

Thanks for the advice Ian.

the reason i chose the Aquaone was because i'd been told i could get away with not having a skimmer, and that i could add purigen to the filter system it is supplied with. The only extra thing i was advised to get was a power head to circulate the water more? :roll:

i just want to keep a few fish with a bit of real and bit of fake live rock/coral. have seen some set ups in the tank i'm after and was pretty happy with what i saw.

have i been ill advised?

Hi,

Well, the way you have been advised is not the way (In my opion).

Ask yourself the following questions:

What do I wish to keep ?

What are there needs ?

From there you can plan your your system.

Now if you wish to keep a Reef system (Fish, Live rock & Corals) then I would strongly advise that you invest in a skimmer (the best you can afford - do not be tempted by a cheap alternative - I did twice(it costs more in the end).

As to rock, well again IMO get live rock - do not get fake rock

The live rock will be the main source of your filtration.

As to flow in the tank - well most aim for at least 20x (at the moment in my 40 gallon (160ltrs) I have three power heads (2 maxi jets & 1 Sieo).

I see you are in Hull, well go to Marine Tech - talk to the guys there, they are good people & will point you in the right direction.

Do not rush - it will cost you more in the end.

HTH

Ian

[Dons1903]

Like others have said it is important to decide what you want to keep and get the system to sustain them. This is importnat as if you are looking at a fish-only marine setup you can get away with far less 'stuff' than if you are looking to keep corals too. The reason for this is that corals will require a far better filtration system and also high intensity lighting.

Skimming is very important as it removes disolved organics in the water before it gets a chance to break down into Nitrate. Therefore the more you can remove the easier it is to keep Nitrates down.

While it is possible to run a marine tank using basic biological filtration the end process of this is nitrate and the only way to keep this down is to dilute it with regular water changes. There are now several methods of naturally reducing nitrate to provide a better enviroment for your inhabitants and also less work for you.

The main method is known as the Berlin method which uses efficient skimming to remove as much as possible before it breaks down and live rock to turn nitrate into nitrogen which then escapes into the atmosphere.

Another method is the Deep Sand Bed (DSB) which does the same as live rock but in the sand.

Another is the EcoSystem refugium that involves growing macro algea (such as calerpa) in special mud (usually in a sump tank). The macro algea absorbs the pollutats cleaning the water.

Most marine tanks are based on at least one of these methods, and indeed using a combination of some or all is very popular.

All the filtration methods rely on water movement to pass water over the rock/sand/algae and to ensure you dont have dead spots at least 20x tank capacity per hour is required. With a 40gal tank you would need 800gal/hour of movement either from a big pump or a few smaller ones.

Normal T8 light tubes would be fine for fish-only but at least 1 white and 1 blue would help bring out the colours in the fish. However for most corals you will need far more light either from high energy T5 tubes or metal halide spot lamps with addition light tubes.

If you already have kept cold water and tropical fish, do you have an existing tank that you could upgrade? It wouldn't take much to upgrade a tropical tank to a fish-only marine.

Hope this helps and hasn't confused matters :-?

[JAMBON]

No this hasn't confused matters at all as my brain is like a sponge at the moment absorbing all this info. I do have a 5ft x 2ft x 2ft tank but as it's too big to go into my front room i'm down sizing to the Aqu one aquastyle 850 which will fir nicely into the alloted space. I've been advised that i can put live rock and fake rock into this tank along with around 5 fish and a couple of shrimps. I have 2 power heads that i aim to add to this. I only want a community tank to start with and have been told a pair of clowns and a yelllow tang, cleaner wrasse etc would be ok??

[liquidlogic]

yellow tangs need a min of 4ft (i dont knowe the size of the aqua one tank)
dont bother with fake rock just displace much needed water :)

[Buster]

I've been advised that i can put live rock and fake rock into this tank along with around 5 fish and a couple of shrimps. I have 2 power heads that i aim to add to this. I only want a community tank to start with and have been told a pair of clowns and a yelllow tang, cleaner wrasse etc would be ok??

Hi JAMBON.

Well first of all the advise you have been given on this thread is correct, as stated you need to decide on what you really want to keep in your tank. unfortunatly the type of tank if left as standard that you are using can leave you with very little choice, you will not be able to use a hang on type skimmer. the lights unless I am mistaken are t8's so not much use for most corals. but fish and inverts should be fine. I would not recommend a yellow tang or any other type of tang in a tank of such little volume, you should be ok with four or five small/medium sized fish.
I think a little more time reading on this and other forums will benefit you no end. and please ask as many questions has you wish we are only happy to help.
regards IAN. :grin:

[liquidlogic]

agreed ask as many questions as pos and read and read etc

[flying Jock]

WoW what great advice from the guys! 8-)

It is not usual for me to be lost for much to say! :twisted:

Cant really add much to what has been said! :shock:

Go for LR and not fake rock

Get a very good skimmer (Deltec or Aquamedic IMO)

Have plenty of circulation

Do not add any tangs to a small tank

Try and get the best lighting you can

Take your time and post any questions on here before parting with your hard earned cash.

Oh and i would not purify my water with anything less than an ro unit! :wink:

Good luck
:grin:
FJ

[tonyponty]

good luck on your new adventure im also new to the hobbie but getting there slowly of course :wink:

[Chris, Reef Ranch]

Aqua One aquariums are a good quality build, but the stuff you get with them even if it is advertised as being suitable for marines, is not the way to go. All our set ups are made for the customer (only 21 days waiting time) and they are designed to fit the customers needs. Fish systems need to be run differently from reef.

We have recently set someone up with an Aqua One aquarium. They spent £350 on the aquarium that they purchased some where else. They were under the impression that that was all they needed! Unfortunately, they had to throw the lighting and the filtration away.

We set them up with a Deltec MCE600 (Beefy), Loads of live rock, plenty of flow, a metal halide and a peppering of sand. They are running well after only 3 months. They have several fish and a full reef of corals.

Chris

[Reefer]

My only advice is have patience dont rush in and make sure you have deep pockets my friend, this is a world apart cost wise to tropicals, put aside £1,000 to set yourself up from scratch. Best of luck.

:wink:

[JAMBON]

Get delivery of my new tank on Fri.

After listening to various people and your helpful comments i'm going to stay away from the fake rock and corals and install some coral sand and a few pieces of live rock.
i'm looking at a community set up. What sort of fish woukld be suitable together?? and how many. I'm aiming to get the most colourful fish i can. these are the names of fish i have seen and picked out so far....
clown fish
yellow tang
butterly fish
cleaner wrasse (blue and white)
falme angel/damsel not sure what it was called but it was a stunning red/orange with purple stripes....the prettiest fish i have seen!! are any of these compatible?? help

[Tetley]

Hi,

Please do not add any fish until your tank has cycled.

Once your readings are ok, then add some clean up crew - ask James (Reef Critters - sponser on site for advice on this one)

After a couple of weeks (AFTER tank has cycled and clean uop crew has been added), you could introduce a pair of clowns - great fish - fairly hardy.

Please do not add any more fish for a least a month - during this time keep a eye on your readings.

Fish which will not suit your tank (Tang - Butterfly - Cleaner Wrasse) - do not add these - your tank will not be suitable.

Next fish could be Flame Angel - these have been know to nip corals - so bit of a gamble IMO.

HTH

Ian

[Dons1903]

Ian is right there. Clowns are perfect to start you off, but then wait a month to ensure your bacteria levels get sorted out.

A small yellow tang would be fine to start with , but it would very quickly out grow your tank as they need lots of swimming space.

Butterfly fish are a nightmare to feed and tend to starve to death :shock: Best avoided.

Same for the Cleaner Wrasse. They feed on parasites on other fish and so within the closed enviroment of a tank they don't have much to feed off and so starve too!

It sounds like the orange fish you describe is a Flame Angel (my favourite fish). This would be a good choice but is a pricey fish so its up to you.
http://www.justphish.com/saltwater/fish/flame%20angel%202.jpg

Other bright coloured fish you could consider are:
False Gamma
Scarlet Hawkfish

[JAMBON]

Just done a search on Google and couldn't find any images of the False Gamma?? does anyone have a pic they can show me? but the scarlet hawkfish looked very nice.
Advice noted - stay away from Yellow Tang = too big.
But what else can i pit in there. Am very open to suggestions from the fountain of knowledge you generous people are providing me with. Believe me i haven't been so excited about getting a new set up like this in a long while. My tank we be my pride and joy...so i apologise for all the questions....i just can't seem to stay out of the aquaruims around my area. KKC and Marine Tech must be getting sick of the sight of me!! :-D i just want a simple community set up full of colour and seeing as though i won't be able to have corals....the fish will have to provide that.

[Tetley]

Just done a search on Google and couldn't find any images of the False Gamma?? does anyone have a pic they can show me? but the scarlet hawkfish looked very nice.
Advice noted - stay away from Yellow Tang = too big.
But what else can i pit in there. Am very open to suggestions from the fountain of knowledge you generous people are providing me with. Believe me i haven't been so excited about getting a new set up like this in a long while. My tank we be my pride and joy...so i apologise for all the questions....i just can't seem to stay out of the aquaruims around my area. KKC and Marine Tech must be getting sick of the sight of me!! :-D i just want a simple community set up full of colour and seeing as though i won't be able to have corals....the fish will have to provide that.

I am sure the guys at Marine Tech are only to happy to help you out.

In my 40 gallon, I have 2 clowns, A Lemon Peel Angel & a strawberry Gramma - all of which add that splash of colour.

If you sticking to T'8's for your lighting, there is no reason why you could not add some of the easier soft corals - mushroom, leather ect -

ATB

Ian

[Solo]

A nice shoal of chromis can really make a tank come alive! Easy to keep, cheap, yet add colour and movement!

Flame angel would make a great addition!

Si

[Dons1903]

Sorry, typo!

It should of been a False Gramma!

http://www.saltcorner.com/sections/zoo/fish/basslets/pictichromis/Ppaccagnellae.jpg

[JAMBON]

Oooh that looks luverly!! :-D

So far i've chosen Clown Fish, Lemon Peel Angel, Flame Angel,False Gramma and Chromis. Are they all compatible??

[Tetley]

Hi,

Two dwarf angels (Lemon & Flame) would not be a good idea - one or the other.

As to the rest - I would say you would be OK.

Not all at once - take your time - Clowns First (or indeed Chromis) - wait (a least a month) before you add any thing else - keep your eye on your readings - don't overfeed).

Then your next fish - same procedure. ect - ect

Dwarf Angel last (Lemon or Flame).

Nice choice of fish -

ATB

Ian

[JAMBON]

Don't worry i will take my time. Not wasting my hard earned cash!! :wink: But i am very excited with my new venture. Can anyone recommend a good book to buy re marine set ups/fish choice for the beginner?? :-D

[Solo]

Reef secrets is a fantastic book!

Si

[finlee]

I know I may be knew on here but I saw that picture of the false gramma on the internet which said that it was a dottyback. I read in one of my books that they can be quite aggresive and not suitable for a community tank. I bought a royal gramma - looks the same but non-aggresive

[lenny]

good sound advice here. one one final note and in my own experience doubble any costs you have been quoted and then add another half and you should be somewhere near the actuall cost of a set up no matter what size...lol lenny

[JAMBON]

Popped into Marine Tech on Sunday. Finally met Chris and Ian.....great to put a face to the name. Sound advice given again.....cheers fellas. You will be seeing a lot of me i'm afraid!!

[Buster]

Popped into Marine Tech on Sunday. Finally met Chris and Ian.....great to put a face to the name. Sound advice given again.....cheers fellas. You will be seeing a lot of me i'm afraid!!

LOL not a problem JAMBON:) we are always happy to help. Next time you are in we will put the kettle on.:) .

Kind regards Ian.

[Blue]

no probs. pleased to meet you, see you soon,
kind regards chris

[JAMBON]

Bad timing on sunday i know!! cuppa would've been spot on but you were waiting to close.
can anyone tell me what the names are under everyone's user names?? hermit crab etc......and how they work? That book i bought from you is very good indeed. Loadsa info on setting up and water quality etc. As i say i'm new and it's gonna take me a while to pick up the names of the the different inverts/fish/corals etc.

[oakwell]

its to do with the amount of replys/threads you add to the site u will see that hermit crabs have one fish highlighted too.
The more fish highlighted the bigger discount from james ....so get posting!!

Reach 50 to be a hermit crab i believe?

darren

[JAMBON]

Aah....get it now!!

will keep posting then!!

[Macca]

I will update the Reef Critters posting discount sheme. Remember all sponsors on this board look after Reef Corals members. So when at their premises, just ask! Hopefully they wont bite!! :) I know a few forum members that have taken up these offers already!!! :D

James

[Reefer]

Royal Grammas are nicer, a blenny either bi-colour or algae are an interesting addition to any tank. Dwarf angels are ok too I like the cherub angel and the flameback but only keep one dwarf angel in a tank. You must get a pair of clowns, standard issue im afraid but interesting and characterful.
cheers

[Blue]

I will update the Reef Critters posting discount sheme. Remember all sponsors on this board look after Reef Corals members. So when at their premises, just ask! Hopefully they wont bite!! :) I know a few forum members that have taken up these offers already!!! :D

James

Yes, as said, don't forget to mention the discount. If you want a quiet cup of tea and a chat , it's best to pop in on a week day , as the weekends are "always" busy.
As for the info you get on the upkeep of your new aquarium, you will get lots of advice, and a lot of conflicting advice that will drive you crazy.
The beggining is always the hardest because your hands are tied by having to trust in what people say to you and some advice, I'm afraid to say, is not always right!
All you can do is trust your instincts and pick the bits out of all the info you get , that suit your own needs for your system.
Kindest regards Chris.

[Reefer]

Advice will be different, what works for some will not work for others but on the whole any advice I have read on here and tried has worked for me, trust in these guys they know what its about!

[JAMBON]

Your not wrong there!! The amount of rubbish i've been told over the years....i've kept tropical for 7 years so not adverse to the b*llsh!t people try and feed you. As i say i'm not wasting my money on stuff just on what people tell me. I'm man enough to make my own mistakes....so am very selective to whom i listen too. The guys at Matine Tech are genuine guys and really are eager to help. Went to KKC and they seem too busy to help.....so they won't be seeing the colour of my money!!

[Macca]

Have you joined our Yorkshire club yet Jambon? I believe our next meeting is at Marine Tech. Just waiting for Eric to confirm.

James