Please submit your

[Macca]

1. Salinty
2. Temp

Readings please, I am reading an intresting report by Dr Shimek and would like to do a survey,

Many thanks for your input!

James

ps edited report -

Dr Shimek reports that many marine hobbyists are running their systems at a boundary temp/salinity life and death level for many of its inhabitants. At best we could be slowly killing some of these animals as their captive lifespan is cut short through the stress of our own mismanagement.

He quotes “The major basic rule of thumb in keeping animals easily is: “Find out what the animal’s physiological optimum temperature and salinity ranges are, and adjust conditions to match those optima.”

This is where most of us are getting it wrong! How can we keep these animals at their physiological optimum temperature and salinity ranges when we buy animals from reefs throughout the globe and stick them together in our small setups? Corals from coral lagoons are found generally in temperatures of 2 to 4 degrees F above the surrounding sea water temp.

Some animals can adapt to rapid changes in salinity and temp than others. Animals through time have evolved to adapt and live in their natural environment. If for instance they are less numbers or they are non existent on an adjacent reef they will be a scientific explanation for this. Captive animals may well tolerate temp and salinity different from their natural location but for how long? Dr Shimek offers an explanation that the animals as so stressed in their alien environment that they use all their metabolic energy coping with these extremes. Feeding, growing and reproducing become less important as the animal battles to survive. Through time the animal will lose it battle if kept in this alien environment if it cannot adapt.

I have personally witnessed reef tanks being maintained in LFS and at home with a temp range of 73 degree to 85 degrees F. I have been advised that certain parasites / bacteria find it hard to live at the lower scale and on the upper scale coral growth is enhanced. If for example you reef animal's natural sea water temp is 84 degrees and you run your tank at 74 degrees then this animals metabolic rate is halved (general rule) or vice versa. Marine fish / inverts cannot control their own body temp, they rely on us to do this for them.

Salinity is another issue as seawater not only varies in sg with temperature but by location also. Again marine fish / inverts find it hard to adjust to unnatural salinity levels and this in turn stresses them as they consume little energy they have to accommodate these extremes. Some exceptions are shallow water animals from the Caribbean that have learned to live in fluctuated temp/saline conditions. Indo pacific deep water animals are not used to these conditions yet due to our mismanagement from the wholesaler to the hobbyist we keep them at unnatural levels, ending their life prematurely.

Often we are offered animals in the trade that are zombies being kept in conditions that lower their metabolic rate (temp/salinity), this lowers their chances of catching parasites. If these stressed animals we offered at the correct salinity / temperature then infections would be rife due to their stress levels, and unfortunately this is what happens when introduced back into higher temp / saline conditions.

[Gillybaby]

All three of my tanks are the same:

Salinity: 35ppt (measured with a refractometer)
Temp: 80F +/- 2F

[SteveS]

main tank

salinity 30ppt
temp 80 give or take 2 degrees

nano(in the lads room)
salinity 30 ppt
temp 82

steve

[Macca]

why do you run you tank sg so low steve?

[TerraC]

Salinity 30ppt or 1.023
Temp 80f

[SteveS]

why do you run you tank sg so low steve?

erm, dunno :)

didnt think it was low, 1.023/1.024 according to my refrac is about on the button???

steve

[Macca]

at 80 degrees 30ppt = 1.021sg

James

[SteveS]

at 80 degrees 30ppt = 1.021sg

James


i will retest tomorrow james, just for you :)

steve

[Macca]

good result earlier! love to see the rivals getting gubbed! :eek:

James

[Electric Monk]

Temp: 78degrees

SG: 1.025

[Macca]

Electric Monk, I am thinking of changing to around your parameters also! I am running the main tank too cold and SG to high at the moment. Faulty equipment!

James

[Electric Monk]

Electric Monk, I am thinking of changing to around your parameters also! I am running the main tank too cold and SG to high at the moment. Faulty equipment!

James

I've pretty much kept the same since day one, drops to about 77 degrees at night and up to about 80 degrees during the summer during the day.


Off the topic a bit but just found this:

http://reefgis.reefbase.org/mapper.asp

[MR Teee]

35 ppt Salinity (measured with a refractometer)
25.7 degrees c at the moment (will settle at 25.9 hitting a high of 26.3 and a low of 25.3)

[callum_parsons]

temp: 80f
salinity: 1.024

[course-its-reefsafe]

Salinity 35ppt

Temp 27.5 deg C

[Tetley]

Hi

For me temp 24c (a liitle on the low side - but I am happy for the moment)

Salinity 1.025

ATB

Ian

[Macca]

Ian are you running on the cool side for any specific reason?

James

[Macca]

Does anyone know the sea temp for singapore, phillipines and Java?

James

[Tetley]

Ian are you running on the cool side for any specific reason?

James

Hi James,

Well, less heat = less waste (slower metobolic (sp) rate). TBH thinking about it & after reading the article - I might slowly increase - but since starting Marine's I have run at this temp - (Tropicals also, agian for 3+years)

What do you think?

ATB

[Macca]

Ian, I am just intrested in what others do. I was told 20 years ago to run at 75 but this now seems low according to the experts. Dont know if it is global warming but now it seems to be the norm to run at 80 +/- 2 degrees. If a coral was removed from the wild at 80 F then it does seem logical to keep it at 80 F. Dr S quotes this being the major reason that reproduction happens in scientific labs compared to home aquaria as they match to the coral / fish natural environment as much as possible. Calfo on the other hand has been quoted not to run a home aquaria over 84. He quotes due to the high metabolic rate our systems can be prone to crash and a wipeout would be very likely.

James

[Tetley]

Ian, I am just intrested in what others do. I was told 20 years ago to run at 75 but this now seems low according to the experts. Dont know if it is global warming but now it seems to be the norm to run at 80 +/- 2 degrees. If a coral was removed from the wild at 80 F then it does seem logical to keep it at 80 F. Dr S quotes this being the major reason that reproduction happens in scientific labs compared to home aquaria as they match to the coral / fish natural environment as much as possible. Calfo on the other hand has been quoted not to run a home aquaria over 84. He quotes due to the high metabolic rate our systems can be prone to crash and a wipeout would be very likely.

James

It just goe's to show how much variation there is throughout this hobby, it is interesting you ask ten people what do you do ? - most of the time you get ten different answers.

Its great having a forum like this, where you can explore & learn from others- best thing I ever did joining RC, nice people, honest answers, no slagging - bliss. :)

[stevieh]

temp = 78f sg= 1.025 :) quote Its great having a forum like this, where you can explore & learn from others- best thing I ever did joining RC, nice people, honest answers, no slagging - bliss. :) here here ian. stevie

[flobajob]

Now I'm confused! I'm running at 34-35ppt and 25-26 degrees celcius (77-79 degrees fahrenheit).

I suppose as long as any additions are acclimatised properly they'll be alright. It seems to me that there is little evidence to show whether higher or lower temps and salinities are better, and since people have had success at both ends of the scale I am trying to aim for the middle of it. Until there is direct evidence to show us that a particular salinity and temp are better for the creatures we keep then it seems a little hasty to claim that inhabitants may be suffering.

Anyway, I hope it doesn't make too much difference where the params are, as I have my cleanup crew arriving tomorrow and it's a bit too late to be playing around with the salinity and temperature now.

[Blue]

The show tank runs at 1.025 and the temp is about 26 normally:) The temp in summer has reached 30 and panicked. I took the thermometer out because I kept looking at the temp all the time in summer and haven't used it since :D :D I wouldn't advise ayone else to do this though. I am just being honest.:) Gonna get shot for this :D

[Tetley]

The show tank runs at 1.025 and the temp is about 26 normally:) The temp in summer has reached 30 and panicked. I took the thermometer out because I kept looking at the temp all the time in summer and haven't used it since :D :D I wouldn't advise ayone else to do this though. I am just being honest.:) Gonna get shot for this :D

Naughty man ! :D

[moorish]

salinity 1.025 temp 26c-27.5c.derek

[Zeus]

Salinity = 35ppt
Temp - 25.5 Centigrade +-1.0 controlled by Teco TC10 water conditioner.

I do have a bit of fluctuation, down to as low as 24.5 during the night and 26.5, during the day, but this is a natural phenomenon and I've had no trouble with health or algae.

But due to oxygen considerations I'd never, ever let my tank get higher the 26.5.

Campbell

[Macca]

good point regarding oxygen levels Campbell!

James

[Zeus]

Does anyone know the sea temp for singapore, phillipines and Java?

James

Hi James,

I found this for surface temps. Not very high resolution but should give you an idea.

http://www.windows.ucar.edu/tour/link=/earth/Water/images/ocean_temp.html&edu=high

Campbell

[Macca]

Thanks Campbell, done a bit of homework and got the following info, taken me ages but here it is

a - Florida Keys 25c
b - Sri Lanka 27c
c - Singapore 28c
d - Java / Bali 30c
e - Phillipines 28c
f - Hawaii 25c
g - Cotez / Baja 25c

I have added my source - Most of our UK imported hard corals come from Jave / Bali, might be worh keeping them that little bit warmer!

James

[Zeus]

You are welcome James.

I have been looking at this a little further as well, not for surface temps. but for temps at 20 - 30 metres down, and came across this on Wiki.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_surface_temperature

They talk about skin temperature that satellites measure, which I did not realise when I posted that first link. So how does this compare to what you have found? At what depths were these reading taken?

Also, on your "travels" to get the readings you listed, did you notice any info on temperature at depths of 20 - 30 metres? I am fairly sure that it'll be within a narrow band worldwide but can't seem to find any info. Yet!

Cheers,
Campbell

[oakwell]

78-80 and sal 1.025-1.026 and alls well in the tank at the minute.

[Zeus]

Eureka!!! I have found it.

NOAA data online at
http://www.nodc.noaa.gov/OC5/WOA05F/woa05f.html

You can see a whole bunch of parameters. Not just Temperature, they've even got oxygen, phosphate and nitrate measurements at various depths. According to the blurb they have measurements from over 5.1 million sources/samples.

Pretty neat.

Campbell

[oakwell]

thats quite interesting

[Gillybaby]

I still think temp of around 80F and salinity of 35ppt gives the best average for all tank inhabitants. Afterall, very few of us actually have a specific biotope and our fish and inverts from all over the world are mixed in together. Well, mine are ;)

What do you all think, is there a better average to go for?

[Tetley]

Hi Gilly,

I think your right, ie plumb for the middle line.

After reading this thread, I am slowly raising my temp to what seems to be the average.

ATB

[Macca]

Eureka!!! I have found it.

NOAA data online at
http://www.nodc.noaa.gov/OC5/WOA05F/woa05f.html

You can see a whole bunch of parameters. Not just Temperature, they've even got oxygen, phosphate and nitrate measurements at various depths. According to the blurb they have measurements from over 5.1 million sources/samples.

Pretty neat.

Campbell

Thanks Campbell just what I wanted, Will look into the fugures now! :)

James

[eskimoigloo]

26 Centigrade, 1.025 Sg (with refractometer)

[Macca]

here is an intresting page from that site Campbell, pity the reefs I am intrested in are not being monitored.

Link (http://www.osdpd.noaa.gov/PSB/EPS/CB_indices/coral_bleaching_indices.html)

James

[Zeus]

Thanks James,

That is pretty interesting reading, I had thought that sea temps. around the equator were pretty much the same.

Another aspect to consider, that has just sprung to mind, is the difference between wild caught, 1st generation captive bred and subsequent generations of captive bred fish, inverts and corals.

Although the species could trace it's lineage back to these higher or lower temperature waters the individual animals may well be umpteen generations removed from these ancestral conditions.

I reckon it'd be like you or me, from these cold British shores, averaging 4.4C in Winter and 14.4C in Summer to being stuck in Texas, averaging 12.7C in Winter and 25.1C in Summer without air conditioning. Yes we could tolerate it in the short term, but in the long term, who knows what health problems may result.

So as Gilly says, we generally don't have biotope correct setups but have mixed livestock species hailing from all over the globe but I think the actual source of the individual animal needs to be taken into consideration as well with a view to preventing long term issues.

What do you folks think?

Gilly, I don't know if there's a better average but if you think about it, not many of the animals we keep live in less than 1 metre deep water.

Campbell

[Macca]

Reason for my investigations as we often bring in Hard corals that are cultured in the Java Sea. Obviously they are a tougher species than wild caught but only just - they still get all the benefits from their natural surroundings. Java / Bali are bang in the middle of the warmest reef waters in the globe. Around 30 degrees. The survival rate of these corals are quite poor. This is not my findings but is general knowledge. (Poor compared to home grown SPS). Not only do you tend to lose 1 in every 12 or so during import but I have lost a few through time. Obviously home grown coral are far hardier but why? I know their make up shows them to be more forgiving but if there is anything that I am doing that is causing more stress on these corals I would like to eradicate it. Temp and Salinity are easily managed unlike, Phosphates and Nitrates so getting them right would be a good start.

James

[Reefer]

Salinity - 1.025
Temp - 78f
Hows that?

[elliee]

salinity 1025
temp 78/80

[trik]

salinity 1.026

temp 78/80
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[Mantis147]

Salinity:- 1.024
Temp:- 78f

[Chris, Reef Ranch]

Salinity constantly 35PPT (parts per thousand) just under 1.026 or 3.5%. Same a Red Sea

Temperature 23-24oC. Some coral diseases become virulent above 24oC.


Chris

[Chris, Reef Ranch]

I think from what I know of the wild that it would follow that wild collected hard-corals would be tougher than cultured. This goes against all other schools of thought.

However, if the cultured varieties are subjected to force growth and worse conditions in the wild then yes, only the ones that survive this will be genetically tougher than the ones that perish. However, the most economical way of culturing corals abroad is to use natural light and seawater so why would they be tougher? Plus it is not in the businesses interest to keep them in NAF conditions.

Wild corals are constantly under threat from predation, disease, shading and stinging. The cultured colonies are not. Which ones do you think might be more resilient? I suspect it is because all hard corals have a very bad time of it when they are imported. Cultured corals might be more resilient to temperature fluctuations because they are probably cultured in very shallow troughs? The main problem with importing them is zooxanthellae loss and stress. The temperature theory might be why we observe these problems and why cultured corals appear to be tougher than wild colonies.

I doubt if salinity has anything to do with it. Some SPS are regularly exposed a low tide for over 2.5 hours in the baking sun. A change of salinity is likely to occur regularly when new water rushes into lagoons on the new tide.

Chris

[Scooby_uk]

1.026 and 75

[gary smith]

salinity 1.026 refractometer

temp 25 to 26 c controlled with a atc 800 cheers gary

[Tom2006]

Sal. 1.025
temp. 26-27C steady at the moment, but fearing summer temps. :eek:

[Tangman]

Hi mine is temp 24c salinty 1025, i keep my tank temp low as i dont have heaters in my sump, as my house is very warm in winter and they never came on even in the night. It some times rises to 25/26c in summer but no more as my fan come on at 25c and go off at 26c. HTH. Eric:D

[moorish]

temp 79-81F
SG 1.025

derek

[Guest]

hi chaps
temp 79-81 little less in winter as it drops no heater needed most times room very warm

sg 1.023

john

[flobajob]

My temp is 27 degrees, though I get around a 1 degree fluctuation between the day and the night (i.e. 26.5-27.5).

My salinity is kept at 35ppt.

[d j]

hi all tank in kicten salinity 1.024 temp 25c tank in living room salinity 1.025 temp 26. this tank temp does go up and down more than the one in kicten :rolleyes:

[ROB]

SG 1.O23
Salinity 31 ppt
temp 80 ish my digital went awol got a floating one at the minute,

just clean up crew in tank at the mo,


Rob.