diy t-5 lighting planning stage

[cl0wn]

thinking of doing the above. planning 6 tube set up 36" luminar. below is material list.

3 x 54watt double ballasts. just like the ati's - using 54w ballast to drive 39w tube.
end caps.
2 or 3 pc fans either end of luminar 1 end blowing in 1 end blowing out.

luminar will be made out of coloured acrylic insulated on the roof to protect from heat. clear acrylic to cover.

was thinking of dimmable t-5's but they're over 3x the cost for the ballasts. (would be nice tho').

decent reflectors.

do these plans seem ok???

[treeboa]

why do you want to overdrive the tubes, what tubes are you thinking of using, gull wing reflectors should give you better results

[cl0wn]

want ati performance without paying ati prices. gull wing was prolly what i was thinking, i have a couple spare.

[treeboa]

look at using the d&d aquablue plus tubes, my worry with using the blues though would be overdriving would kick the spectrum and wave length out, possibly negating the effect your looking for

do ati actually use 54 watts on 39 watt tubes or do they have other resistances in the line to lower it a bit, say to 49 watts ??

[cl0wn]

trying to find out what gubbins are in an ATI unit.

[treeboa]

be something simple, but well hidden no doubt, or it could be a specialised ballast built for them, hence the price

shame your not working with bigger tubes, i could have donated you a couple of 80watt d&d tubes to play with

[treeboa]

old stuff but worth a read pete

http://www.zeovit.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-8481.html

[cl0wn]

how wierd just read that thread :)

states on there that the 39w tubes are driven by a 54w ballast. thought that was what the cooling was for. reduces the tube life tho'. perhaps the issue in the thread has caused them to add a resistor to slightly lower the drive.

[treeboa]

could also be they are using the icecap electronic ballasts, dont think they available in the uk, marine lighting may be able to supply but i doubt it, biggest problem with a resistor in the line is that also produces heat, you may have to use a ceramic type and heat sink them

whos cutting your acrylic ??

[cl0wn]

was thinking of getting the net for the acrylic cut by a firm in hull that has previously been linked on here. perhaps even the preformed luminare. depends on price.

[treeboa]

one thing i have wondered on all the luminars, does the cover glass/acrylic cut back on the light, i know a lot use them but the likes of the mega twins and razors do not, they do however have waterproof light fittings were as the luminairs dont from what i have seen

[cl0wn]

from what i can tell yes, all glass / covers cut down on the light to some extent. i'll be using ip/67 endcaps any way so will have to research ventilation. whether having a cover will improve the unit or not or whether it should be drilled to ventilate. with the cooling fans 1 in 1 out i'm thinking enclosed.

[treeboa]

see what you mean on the price of dimming ballasts
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[cl0wn]

would be nice but my philosophy is keep it cheap. staggering the shutdown has just as good effect imo. plus i may incorporate some blue led's.

[cl0wn]

just having a think on the q of ventilation, perhaps a better idea would be having fans on both ends blowing in and fans in the middle blowing out? it's the ends of the tubes that get the hottest.

[treeboa]

hard choice, drawing from the center means the air arriving at the ends is warm, blowing towards the center takes hotter air through the unit lol
heat sink the reflectors at the ends and have the mouting clips near the tube ends so they draw heat to the sinks

of course you could always water cool them, end the day they do that with some hot running overdriven computers lol

[treeboa]

thinking further pete, why not remote the ballasts, keep that heat out of the units

[cl0wn]

yeah, drawing air in from the ends and out from the middle as i thought, mind you pc fans are as cheap as chips could have loads. like the idea of heat sinks at the ends also.

[cl0wn]

posted at the same time. was just thinking of remote ballasts, the power of kronenberg1664!!! surely remote ballast in some sort of enclosed unit would require cooling also. think i would prefer both together. two bird one stone.

[treeboa]

john if he sees this prob has something, 1/4 as complex. 25* as good and costs 1/3 of what your looking at lol

just a shame they dont do as far as i have seen double tube 80watt dimable ballasts, only singles, might have been tempted to mod one of my megatwins and get the dimming module for the tronica

[treeboa]

bolt the ballast to the wall, nice cover and a single fan, wall if brick should wick the heat

[cl0wn]

tubes would still need cooling???

also bear in mind the missus. remote ballasts bolted to the wall may well end up with something else bolted next to it.

[treeboa]

decent cover mate and she should be happy, if not you can always threaten to sell her into slavery, if the tanks on an outside wall mount the things outside but in a weatherproof enclosure, i would not mount inside the stand, i imagine they could really heat a space up


one the advantages of being single bud-you can tell them to go home :)

[cl0wn]

think i will be planning all in one, i think the will tubes produce the most heat. plenty of me to think about tho'. will need a couple more 1664 to get me to sleep, my brains' going 19 to the dozen. cheers mike.

[treeboa]

no probs mate, enjoy while you can - bloody tabs this end means i can have a drink :(:(:(:(

[Valentini]

Quick question realated to T5 units does the quality of the unit effect the proformance of the bulbs then?

[MR Teee]

Quick question realated to T5 units does the quality of the unit effect the proformance of the bulbs then?

Dramatically.

ATI Quote as much as 70-90% increase in performance over standard luminaires.

If only I had a PAR meter.

The yanks on RC did a test comparing them to MH. I posted up the threads for Cl0wn on an earlier occasion.

[MR Teee]

think i will be planning all in one, i think the will tubes produce the most heat. plenty of me to think about tho'. will need a couple more 1664 to get me to sleep, my brains' going 19 to the dozen. cheers mike.

While your in the land of nod, I'll do some detective work for you on my unit :D

[Valentini]

Hmm I naively thought that putting ATI bulbs in my cheapo ebay T5 unit would give similar results to the ATI unit , surly if they get the wattage there designed for nothing else apart from reflector design can effect them?

[treeboa]

be interesting, if you can see,the ballast they use, would not supprise me to find out they using icecaps or similar, be also interesting to see if overdriving by a one step up ballast are they using the ballast `full chat` or have they fitted a resistor(s) in line to cut back on the power a bit

theres a conundrum with the arcadia units then, the seperate ballast versions, one of the smaller ones, the 2 foot tube one will also drive the next size up, its on the box, so you have a situation were the 24 watt unit will drive the 39 watt tubes, begs questions then about the smaller tubes being overdriven and could that be used to anyones advantage

[MR Teee]

Just had a look, got the pics for later, but there are no surprises and nothing special in there.

[MR Teee]

Hmm I naively thought that putting ATI bulbs in my cheapo ebay T5 unit would give similar results to the ATI unit , surly if they get the wattage there designed for nothing else apart from reflector design can effect they?

Wattage has nothing to do with much I'm afraid.

Reflectors, operating temperature and the height of the unit above the water are the critical things. All will increase PAR (Photosynthetically available radiation) In the tank.

[treeboa]

when you say wattage has nothing to do with it, it must have or these units would not be overdriving-unless of course its so they can sell more tubes because they dont last as long lol

so the ballasts are bog standard find anywhere ones then, not icecaps or similar ? that does supprise me considering the cost of these units

[MR Teee]

This was the question,

Hmm I naively thought that putting ATI bulbs in my cheapo ebay T5 unit would give similar results to the ATI unit , surly if they get the wattage there designed for nothing else apart from reflector design can effect they

whats the results with a 24 W tube stuck on the wall with a piece of white card, vs, a correctly designed reflector, cooling, next to the surface of the water, correct spectrum bulbs?

Wattage has nothing to do with it, the implication was because they are both 24W they give out the same light.

[MR Teee]

Re, overdriving.

Theres no need with the correct R&D gone into the factors already mentioned, why do they need to overdrive?

The cost is perfectly reasonable IMO considering the output exceeds a 250W metal halide, on a reflector with electronic ballast.

[Timo]

I have the ATi bulbs in my Arcadia unit and they do seem to run quite hot, thinking about modding the unit buy adding and exhaust fan.

Are T5 bulbs brighter when they are cooler? mine look brighter in the morning but could just be my eyes lol.

[treeboa]

Re, overdriving.

Theres no need with the correct R&D gone into the factors already mentioned, why do they need to overdrive?

The cost is perfectly reasonable IMO considering the output exceeds a 250W metal halide, on a reflector with electronic ballast.



3 x 54watt double ballasts. just like the ati's - using 54w ballast to drive 39w tube


is pete wrong in this then, or has he seen a different ati unit to yours

interesting you talk about being better than halides, a thought i have had for quite some time, especially after reading this years ago


D&D Mega Twin T-5


T-5's are the new form of lighting which is taking the aquarium world by storm. They are basically VERY powerful fluorescent lamps.


The A1 phosphor mix gives up to 10% more light per watt than a metal halide and produces minimal radient heat.


Tube life of up to 15,000 hours, which is over 5 years at 8 hours per day!


never had to strip one of mine yet so i cant say what ballasts are in them, however mine are 80watt units and as far as i am aware or can find they dont make t5 ballasts of a higher wattage

[Valentini]

OK .. so if you just have a 54w ballast and a tube all 54w ballasts will get the same light from the tube?

[MR Teee]

I'll post the pics in another thread since this one has been taken off track.

[cl0wn]

have deleted a couple of posts that were irrelevant, if anyone has a problem with this the posts can be reinstated.

[cl0wn]

been having a quick look 2 x 39w t5 ballasts £11!!! dimmable £34.

this one's a goer!!!

[TerraC]

sounds interesting where r the ballasts from? :)

[cl0wn]

wireless connection went down and pages lost terra, will have another look tomorrow and pm you the links. wireless still playing up.

[cl0wn]

ah yes history might work!!! pm sent terra c.

[TerraC]

nice one m8 thanks...

[cl0wn]

found this:
http://www.sareefkeeping.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12439

please feel free to post links of similar builds:D:D:D

[reeves2k2]

had a quick look around on acrylic and you should have no problem with heat where the luminaqire itself is concerned

it has a 130C melting point so should be suficiant

[cl0wn]

glad to see you following reeves. feel free to add input.

[reeves2k2]

no probs buddy i just been having a quick browse at the thread and the direction your going with it

[cl0wn]

ati use acrylic, so felt feel fairly comfortable going that route. unsure as to the heatsink type middle plate mr tee disected an ati unitand it looked as though ati use an aluminium / stainless steel type middle plate which i am thinking would also act as a heatsink. i'm thinking aluminium at this point as the hood should be fairly moisture tight. also for the cost point of view. also thinking of having shorther reflectors as i feel this helps with keeping the ends cool. maybe 1.5" short of each end, prevent heat reflecting back onto the ends.

[Tangman]

Hi i have a mutual friend who works in acrylic and can do lots of stuff with CNC etc, if you give me some idea what your after i will put it to him and see what he thinks. HTH Twiggy:D:D