DIY carbon / phosphate reactor

[cl0wn]

right, this thread has been a while in the making. first you'll need lockable spaghetti container, i picked these up for £2.39 each. unfortunately as rare as rocking horse 5h1te.

http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2008Q1/DSCF1000_Vga.JPG

drill 25mm hole with spade end drill bit.

http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2008Q1/DSCF0995_Vga.JPG

cut half(ish) of the thread off a 22mm tank connector. 50 ish p from various places.

http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2008Q1/DSCF0996_Vga.JPG

put a washer either side of the plastic container and screw connector in place. they can be tightened with a spanner, sideways in the case of the nut at the bottom of the container.

http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2008Q1/DSCF0997_Vga.JPG

cut some sponge to size. the sponge i'm using for the bottom is not as fine as the top sponge, this should allow better flow from underneath, and prevent media going into the tank.

http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2008Q1/DSCF0998_Vga.JPG

and the finished article. ain't they purdy??!?

http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2008Q1/DSCF1001_Vga.JPG


i will prolly run a thin bead of sealant around the lid seal just to be on the safe side. may even make a disc with holes drilled in to spread the flow up through the media a bit better. then it just needs to be wet tested.


also think that this basic model could be adapted to make a kalk stirrer, or a calcium reactor. maybe even a zeovit reactor.

[elliee]

very well done thats the muts nuts and with a small pump it should work a treat
glyn

[cl0wn]

cheers, just need to get some reducers or hosetails, and they should be ready(ish) for andy and lee.

[dollydip]

as usual peter a quality diy from yourself :bowdown::bowdown:well done mate :D:D:D:D

[cl0wn]

wondered where you had gone to, you just logged off when i posted the thread. what pump do you have to feed them and what size pipe (eheim i presume).

[dollydip]

depends on how i do it mate will have to ring you tomorrow if your in do i take it then you dont need me to do the solvent tests for you now????

[dollydip]

will ring lee in the morning theer is a box of pumps etc i put in his shed we should see whats in there

[cl0wn]

wouldn't mind for eric's kalk reactor and for future reference. thanks bud.:D:D

[Tangman]

Looks like Deltec have some fierce competition there m8, they look the dogs m8. The connecters you have used are ordinary plumbing fittings, so you should find hose tail connecters to glue in so you can fasten a pump on. Twiggy:D:D

[mousehunter22]

Plenty of room in my sump for the wet test if you like matey;):D

Also il dig all the pumps out of that box Andy and see what works ect...:D:D

[dollydip]

there may be some fittings too who knows

[cl0wn]

cool guys.

[danwin]

anyone looking for the containers for the reactor the RANGE (hope im allowed to say that) has them in.

P.S if im not allowed to say the name and mods wipe the name its the second word to the hobby i also like doin which is goin to the driving range to hit golf balls..................:D

Thanks DAN.

[cl0wn]

i'm hoping dollydip will post some pics (hint, hint) of the modifications we did to the reactor today. we made a bracket and got some push fit fittings. i'm sure once he gets back from sweating with jim, he might do some for us!!!!:D:D:D:D

[Tangman]

i'm hoping dollydip will post some pics (hint, hint) of the modifications we did to the reactor today. we made a bracket and got some push fit fittings. i'm sure once he gets back from sweating with jim, he might do some for us!!!!:D:D:D:D
LOL I like it. Twiggy.:D:D

i'm sure once he gets back from sweating with jim, he might do some for us!!!!:D:D:D:D

[cl0wn]

he may well have done himself a mischief, overexerting himself with jim, thought he'd have been on by now.

[Tangman]

he may well have done himself a mischief, overexerting himself with jim, thought he'd have been on by now.
I know i have just rung him but no reply. Twiggy:D:D

[dollydip]

not been in long guys yes im ok so is jim lol steves ok jues fine yep ill post some pics in the morning had a good afternoon and we did well i think peter although peters done all the work and running around i was just his glamorous assistant lol :D:D

[cl0wn]

ahhh, but you had the tools and the acrylic know how. oh, and the tea!!!

[cl0wn]

next in the pipeline is a diy sulphur denitrator for dollydip. realised i have a lovely 6 foot length of drainpipe in the outhouse that would be perfect. now where's those pics andy?:D

[Tangman]

next in the pipeline is a diy sulphur denitrator for dollydip. realised i have a lovely 6 foot length of drainpipe in the outhouse that would be perfect. now where's those pics andy?:D
Hi Peter how about a coil denitrifier, have you had anything to do with these. Twiggy:D:D

[cl0wn]

will have a look now eric cheers.

[johnl69]

next in the pipeline is a diy sulphur denitrator for dollydip. realised i have a lovely 6 foot length of drainpipe in the outhouse that would be perfect. now where's those pics andy?:D


Dont forget you need a Hydrocarbonate Reactor after the sulphur one:D

[cl0wn]

was planning on having it in the same cylinder. now looking at coil denitrators are prolly the way to go.

[johnl69]

was planning on having it in the same cylinder. now looking at coil denitrators are prolly the way to go.


Have you read this http://www.thekrib.com/Filters/denitrator.html

[cl0wn]

yup been reading that. also a decent thread on reefcentral.

thanks btw.

[dollydip]

made available a few pics i have taken for peter in the next steps of his reactors these parts were bought from any local plumbers merchants and are all overflow fittings


cl0wn: have edited, guests were having trouble viewing pics

[dollydip]

edit by cl0wn: same as above andy. just to make it clear to everybody, the pics were taken by andy, i just nicked them

[cl0wn]

and onto the next stage, apparently the bits are called inserts, and push on 22mm endcaps.

http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2008Q1/IMG_3986%20(Small).JPG

drilled and inserts pushed in from behind, plenty of silicone sealant.

http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2008Q1/IMG_3988%20(Small).JPG


work as a nice quick release so will avoid wear and tear on the insert acting as a hosetail.

http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2008Q1/IMG_3991%20(Small).JPG


andy lies, he did most of the work on this mounting bracket pilot hole drilled with spade end bit. hacksaw to create recess. hole drilled further up and notch cut out, riece of knotted air line to hold reactor in place. acrylic heated with hot air gun and bent using workmate edge. note to self will cut overhang shorter on next one.

http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2008Q1/IMG_3992%20(Small).JPG


finished reactor.http://www.ultimatereef.net/forums/images/smilies/dance.gif
http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2008Q1/IMG_3993%20(Small).JPG


enjoy

[Tangman]

All i can say is look out Deltec, they look the dogs Peter well done m8 Twiggy:D:D

[Guest]

i tell you what chaps theres some great ideas on here well impressed i am peter :D

[dollydip]

right here are the finished product if anyone wants to have a go they are really easy and very simple to make and very cheap too as again peter feel free to alter this post if theres anything you want to add :D:D

4035

4036

[Tangman]

right here are the finished product if anyone wants to have a go they are really easy and very simple to make and very cheap too as again peter feel free to alter this post if theres anything you want to add :D:D

4035

4036
They are stunning m8, Deltec should be worried at what its cost you to make them and the price they charge.Well done Peter and Dollydip. Twiggy:D:D

[cl0wn]

only thing i'll change is posting the larger pics.

good job andy

http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2008Q1/IMG_3994%20(Small).JPG

http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2008Q1/IMG_3995%20(Small).JPG

was thinking of connecting the bottom two intakes with a tee in the bottom and having a single feed into the two. but thought that it'd be a PITA to pullthe two out when you only want one. much simpler to tee off some tubing and disconnect independently. enjoyed making them, make it more fun when you can have a good laugh doing something.:D:D:D:D

[dollydip]

it was fun making them just becarfull with the plastic as breaks once you have melted it and shaped it well only if you throw it around the garden :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::D:D:D:D:D right peter whats our next project i enjoyed that and the 6 weeks summer hols are approaching so i have a bit of spare time :D:D

[cl0wn]

prolly the coil denitrator, or something a bit more challenging:D:D:D

[dollydip]

great stuff look forward to it

[cl0wn]

and hears the t5 ballasts very cheep:Dgary

http://www.dealec.co.uk/acatalog/erc..._ballasts.html


curtesy of a certain mr smith
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[ojp]

Looks pretty good. What sort of pump size does it require. Also how much media does it need in.

S

[dollydip]

mousehunter has his reactor up and running with carbon i think he is uiseing a 900 ltr/hr powerhead . i think he filled it around 1/4 to 1/3 seems to be bubbling away nicely

[ojp]

Wicked.

just looking at the above pic. What was in the two reactors?

S

[treeboa]

a coils easy to make, especially if you can source cheap black plastic 1/4" pipe, semi rigids better as it wont flatten as you curve it, you dont need to have it long as you can recoil it over itself as well, one and a half inch drain pipes good enough for a madrel to mount it over, though some purists prefeer to have it coiled inside something in case of leaks, personally i never did, feeding water to one is the problem, you can tee off a sump return, or you can feed off a dosing pump, only thing is you want water with few if any suspended solids in it or it will block, takes about 8 weeks to fully mature and i found it better to have it returning into the skimmer outlet so its re oxygenated and it also drives of the hydrogen gas produced, one thing to beware of, initially as it matures.cycles it produces initially ammonia and then nitrite, not in huge ammounts as its only a few drips a second but still its producing them till the anerobic bacteria gets upto speed, also if for any reason air enters the coil then the system is ******ed and will cycle again

[steve123]

so what flow rate should u run thro so i know what size pump 2 get

[treeboa]

as slow as possible, i use aquamedic sp3000`s on my denitrate system

[cl0wn]

so what flow rate should u run thro so i know what size pump 2 get

do you mean the reactors or a coil denitrator steve.

[treeboa]

both need approx the same flows anyway, too fast and your feeding oxy rich water into the system which can only work when its anerobic

[cl0wn]

both need approx the same flows anyway, too fast and your feeding oxy rich water into the system which can only work when its anerobic


now i'm :confused:, carbon and phos reactors need more flow, carbon more than phos. coil denitrators are usually teed of from some other source pump and have a flow rate of around a drip a minute????

think the threads becoming confused between the two.

[cl0wn]

lee, have you got any pics of the dual reactor going, wouldn't mind seeing that baby in action.

[Stevesfish]

I done the same thing a while back but used 2 air tight jars from debenhams . it works fine heres a pic of it in action carbon in the first chamber as it can give off phosphates and ultraphos in the second . appx 1000litres an hour through put
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb247/Stevesfish_bucket/08042008059.jpg

[treeboa]

sorry bud, thought we had progressed to the coil and denitrate units, by the way your drops per min is far too slow, drops per second is more realistic, slower is not always better, especially when by going too slow you will find the pipes blocking from bacteria, if i remember corectly a coil runs better at between 2 - 6 drops per second, obviously the more drops as the unit fully matures, though you have to check the water nitrate content coming from the unit and compare it with the feed water nitrate wise to see its actually working or at what level its dripping into the water, ideally it should be 0, my big am denitrate unit provides just that at around 3 ltrs per hour, not a lot but everything helps

[mousehunter22]

Just cought up with this thread sorry:o These are the dogs!!!! im well pleased they are a pease of cake to service and easy to get runnin im puttin 900ltrs an hour through mine and seems to be great il get some pic's when i get a new phone or a camera that bloody works:D

[ojp]

Great ideas.

Can the same be used for De-Nitrification?

S

[cl0wn]

tbh the size of the spag jars is perfect for kalk stirrers, phos and carbon reactors. theoretically it's possible, for maybe a nano or small tank. i would i'm gonna be having a go at a couple of coil denitrators in the next few weeks and would prefer something that was more "tailor made" for each tank. the capacity and length / size of coils is important to getting the maximum efficiency from the denitrifier.

oh yeah, plus the light shouldn't be allowed in. < that would have been the simpler, shorter answer!!!

[ojp]

what is the coil needed for?

Ive never really come across any of this

S

[treeboa]

a coil denitrator is an old device, basically you provide an enviroment were anorobic bateria live, none oxygen loving, that stuff eats nitrate, only problem is your water is laden with oxy, so a long coil, ie 40 foot, with a slow feed provides that enviroment, you coil it to shorten the space requirement, it could just as easy be a straight length, if you had the space, the requirement is a slow feed, the bacteria colonises the inner walls of the tube and is fed by the water passing over it, the end result is water exiting the tube has no nitrates, or thats the theory lol

[Tangman]

what is the coil needed for?

Ive never really come across any of this

S
Hi Si here some reading for you Twiggy:D:D

The basic coil denitrator is a long section of small diameter tubing
with a slow flow of oxygenated water containing ammonia, nitrites and
nitrates, i.e., normal aquarium water. Aerobic bacteria naturally
colonize the insides of the tubing and transform ammonia to nitrite
and nitrite to nitrate. This process uses up the dissolved oxygen in
the front section of the coil and produces anaerobic conditions in the
rest of the length. Anaerobic forms of bacteria grow in this area
and reduce the nitrates and nitrite to gaseous nitrogen.

The trick in the setup is to pick the correct tubing size and length
and proper water flow such that enough bacteria of the right type can
develop and have enough time to complete the denitrification cycle.
Safety and efficiency concerns direct the actual design of such a
system.

The coil is simple to make from readily available materials. A visit
to a hardware store or nursery that carries drip irrigation supplies
will provide you with the basics. Fifteen to twenty-five feet of the
thin-walled black, 1/4" PVC tubing used for drip irrigation is perfect
for this application. Simple connectors are available that allow you
to attach the tubing to a source of water. This will generally
produce too much water flow but an inexpensive 1-4 gallon per hour
(GPH) valve is also available that allows for fine adjustments of the
water flow.

For optimum operation, the water should be mechanically but NOT
biologically filtered before entering the coil. This prevents
water-born particles from clogging the small diameter features of the
coil while supplying the maximum amount of ammonia and nitrite to the
aerobic bacteria. Unfortunately, this is difficult to accomplish in
practice since any mechanical filter media will also become a
substrate for nitrifying bacteria. A good compromise is to use the
water return of a canister or trickle filter as the source of water.
This water is very clean yet has been proven to provide enough "food"
for the bacteria.

For safe operation, the outflow from the coil should be passed through
a biological filter of some kind. At some point during the startup
period of the denitrator, enough bacteria will be present to reduce
nitrate to nitrite but not enough to take it all the way to gaseous
nitrogen. It is also possible that after being established, something
may happen that would disrupt the denitrification cycle and nitrites
could again be generated. You do not want to return this nitrite
laden water directly to the aquarium.

APPLICATION

Two of our large 90 gallon freshwater aquariums are heavily planted
and well stocked with fish. Even with the lush plant growth, we had
to change significant amounts of water to maintain low levels of
nitrates. Prior to implementing the coil denitrators, we were
changing 50% of the water every two weeks. This was time consuming
and quite expensive due to the water conditioning and plant fertilizer
products that we use.

Both of these aquariums have trickle filters which allowed a very
simple coil denitrator system. A hole was punched in the vinyl water
return line to the aquarium with an inexpensive drip irrigation hole
punch designed for this purpose. The water return line passes over
the trickle filter sump at the point the hole was punched so if any
leakage occurs it will harmlessly drip into the filter. A 1/4" right
angle connector pushed into the hole connects one end of the coil to
the return line. The back pressure from the 4 foot head is sufficient
to provide more than enough flow through the coil.

The small 1-4 GPH valve is put at the outlet end of the coil. The
valve clogs easily so it is best to put it on the outlet side of the
coil for easy periodic cleaning. A short piece of 1/4" tube is
attached to the other side of the valve and fits into a small hole
drilled in the filter drip tray cover. The water from the coil thus
passes back through the trickle filter providing insurance against
toxic nitrites. The coil outlet is a loose fit in the cover so it can
be easily removed for cleaning and monitoring water flow and nitrate
concentration.

The coil itself rests on the PVC plumbing coming from the filter pump.
It is not fastened down so it can be easily moved if access to the
plumbing is required.

Once set up, the water flow through the coil can be measured by timing
how long it takes to fill a container of known size. For example, if
it takes 6 minutes to fill a 500 ml container, the water flow is 5
liters per hour. Water flow should be checked regularly since
bacteria and their waste products will build up and restrict the coil
and valve. The valve can easily be removed and cleared by blowing
through it but the coil should be left undisturbed. We have found
that the flow through the coil itself is usually not impeded enough to
affect the operation and any attempts to clear the tube will probably
result in a disruption of the denitrification cycle.

The system takes 4-6 weeks for the aerobic and anaerobic bacteria to
completely populate the coil. Prior to this point you may find some
nitrite being formed if you have a sensitive test kit.

Once the coil denitrator is established, the nitrate reduction will
depend on the flow through the coil and what percentage of the coil
contains anaerobic bacteria.

RESULTS

In our set up, we use 15 feet of 3/16" ID tubing and have a water flow
of 3 liters per hour through the coil. The most recent nitrate test
with a Lamotte low range nitrate test kit showed 1.0 ppm
nitrogen-nitrate (4.4 ppm nitrate) on the input and 0.75 ppm (3.3 ppm)
on the output. With a reduction of 1 ppm (1 mg/l) and a flow of 3
l/h, the denitrator is removing 3 mg of nitrate per hour. This is
keeping up with nitrate production since the overall nitrate levels in
the aquariums are staying at around 4-6 ppm. There is no nitrite
coming from the coil as verified by a Lamotte nitrite test kit.

Note that the effects of the denitrator can only be seen if the
nitrate concentration of the inlet water is very low since the
resolution of test kits available to the hobbyist varies with the
nitrate levels. For example, it is simple to tell the difference
between 2 and 3 ppm but almost impossible to tell the difference
between 19 and 20 ppm.

The effectiveness of the coil denitrator has allowed us to reduce the
amount of water we change by two thirds with the attendant reduction
in the cost of water conditioners and stress to the fish. The ten
dollar investment is paying large dividends in both time and money
saved and in overall water quality improvements.

[treeboa]

nice one eric, what it fails to mention is the roten eggs smell that can come from it :vomit:

after using one years ago, fed from a return pipe from an external filter i would advise against that type of feed, the reasoning , you change the filter and you add a small amount of oxygen to the coil, that kills the bacteria and the cycle needs to start again, plus the decaying bacteria exits into your tank, hence the reason i use a dosing pump pick up is in the last chamber of my sump, not to a coil but to an am denitrate unit

[ojp]

thanks for that! can never have enough information

S

[treeboa]

bit of reading for you
http://www.arofanatics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=173567

http://www.thekrib.com/Filters/denitrator.html

http://reefshow.com/html/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=38

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=470701&perpage=25&highlight=Coil%20denitrifier&pagenumber=1

[ojp]

Just re-read that. i think ill stick to building the DIY phos reactor

S

[ojp]

had a look around and i cant find any of those pipes your using for the in/out take. Where did you get them? Also would a 1200lph pump be ok? its for a phos reactors just saves me having to buy one specifically

S

[Guest101]

had a look around and i cant find any of those pipes your using for the in/out take. Where did you get them? Also would a 1200lph pump be ok? its for a phos reactors just saves me having to buy one specifically

S

B&Q they are standard plumbing fitting that they sell, the tank connector with the 90 attached is a toilet overflow.

1200 is a bit too much youd be better with a MJ900 but youd pronernly still have to turn it down as to not over fluidise the media

[ojp]

thanks for that John. Ill pop in on my way home.

Ill also have to keep my eyes out for a cheap pump. Am i looking for around 500lph?

S

[ojp]

daft as it sounds.

Does it matter which end the flow comes from?

S

[cl0wn]

daft as it sounds.

Does it matter which end the flow comes from?

S

not daft at all, better if the flow comes in via the bottom intake, that will fluidise the media better, and won't clog as easily as having the media being pushed down. hth.

[ojp]

Yup that helps

thanks

S

[Jonesie]

Old thread i know but i have just seen this and am trying to make a carbon reactor!
Does anyone know where to get the pipe from? i went to B&Q today but got no luck at all.

Cheers guys

[Tangman]

Clown will be on later he will tell you Twiggy:bigthumbup:

[cl0wn]

do you mean the bulkhead fittings?

[Jonesie]

The inlet and outlet fittings :)

[cl0wn]

these?

http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2008Q1/DSCF0996_Vga.JPG

these were from b and q. and i got another load from a local diy shop.


these:

http://www.ultimatereef.net/uploader/2008Q1/IMG_3986%20(Small).JPG

we had to get from a plumbing merchants, believe it or not they were the most expensive part of the build, but are pretty good as they are push fit and fairly quick release. cost maybe 3 or 4 quid for the fittings for each reactor.

[fizzy]

how about 1 of these, this is something that i make

http://i556.photobucket.com/albums/ss10/fizzy_09/16072009077.jpg

[cl0wn]

wow they look the mutts, can you provide some more details, pics and everything :drool:

[cl0wn]

funnily enough i was thinking about this build this morning, trying to get to sleep. would have thought that using a water butt tap, such as this:

http://www.dobbies.co.uk/acatalog/Sankey-Water-Butt-Spare-Tap-1214.html

instead of the 90 degree elbow / bulkheads would kill two birds with one stone, massively controllable flow, and allows tubing to be connected direclty to them.

[fizzy]

what would you like to know clown ?

[cl0wn]

what would you like to know clown ?

where you got the fittings and materials from, plus any more build pics etc:D:D:D

[fizzy]

well to let you know i make all of this sort of stuff for a living, ill be making a big skimmer at the end of september and just started designs on a zeolite reactor and im building a 'drop of reef ' tank for someone as well.

D

[cl0wn]

well to let you know i make all of this sort of stuff for a living, ill be making a big skimmer at the end of september and just started designs on a zeolite reactor and im building a 'drop of reef ' tank for someone as well.

D

awesome, get some threads started, would love to be able to make equipment like in the pic. custom build my own quality gear. can you start a thread, maybe giving details of tools that you use, and how much they cost. know i'm a PITA but have so many questions!!!:D:D:D:D

[fizzy]

ask away, pm me if you want

[cl0wn]

how about doing an article in the diy section on working with acrylic. we can sticky it or put it in the article section. would be extremely useful, and could be handy for q and a? know it's a lot to ask:D:D:D

[fizzy]

i dont mind doing that for you, ill try to help out where i can and try to give some advice but that will have to wait till after me hol as i go away on tuesday for 2 weeks.

[cl0wn]

that's great, looking forward to it. have a great time.

[Suggs]

Any progress with this?

[fizzy]

sorry for the delay in putting up a thread, just been so busy building tanks and stuff.

[fizzy]

i have now started a new thread.

D

[Ven]

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Addis-Clip-Close-Litre-Spaghetti/dp/B000TAR9JQ

might help ppl looking for the tubs

[cl0wn]

great link ven.

[sailin_home]

stupid question, but how does a carbon reactor work, how often does the media have to be changed? i currently have my rowaphos and carbon in our lasses old tights but surely this would be a more suitable and astetically better method.

[cl0wn]

the reactor works by forcing the water through the media utilising the entire surface area. in tights water can flow around it. hth.

[sailin_home]

ohhh, so alot more beneficial.how often does media need changing?

[cl0wn]

that's the question, how much and how often. most prefer to use a small amount (golfball sized amount) and change often, and leave carbon out for a week or so. one of the things that you need to form your own opinion on.

[sailin_home]

thanks, will look at building one of these units.

[Bradlowes]

Clown. I'm looking to build one of these. Do you recon I could put de-nitrate and some carbon in the same one? Also it's just a nano and could do with knowing if this overkill and look for a smaller pot?

[cl0wn]

don't know about carbon and de-nitrate, just had a look at the specs, and i can't see why not. as to the size, if you have a large reactor, doesn't mean you have to fill it! use whatever suggested.