live rock

[tonyponty]

hi can you tell me if you will be stocking live rock thanks

[Coral Cultivations]

Hi

The main factor which has prevented us from supplying cured live rock in the past is 1) the tank space required for curing it and 2) the quanties we need to purchase in order to make it worth while, which requires lots of tank space - compounding point 1.

A good source of live rock is fellow hobbyists stripping down tanks - as are often advertised on forums such as this.

We may start curing live rock again sometime in the future.

Steve

[total*clowns]

We bought all our live rock from Ebay,from people stripping down their tanks etc, which is where I found reef critters too :D Great job mate, oh and the brittle star fish we bought from you a few months ago is growing and doing well. He is a good 12 inches long from one arm to the other !!!

[Macca]

Nice one, How about a pic?

James

[total*clowns]

Yeah, i will try my best, the little lovely only comes out after lights out, so catching him fully out is a bit of a nightmare !! :roll: I will get the hubby to get him, he loves admiring the tank at silly oclock in the morning :mrgreen:

[Tangman]

Hi Tonyponty. Aquarius sell cured live rock they have about 400kg in at the present. HTH. Eric :)

[total*clowns]

I have heard through the grape vine that live rock prices are set to make a drastic increase in price, not because of us fishie folk but because people in the pacific are using it for thier roads :shock: It is suppose to rise to about £35 per kilo :evil: :shock: not sure how true this is though, but still shocking !!!!!

[newkidfish]

Hi I've recently researched live rock, got some of existing reef keeper but had to ditch as infested with fire worms and red hair algae. :cry:
Went on web and you can pick up figi rock for aprox £150 for 20kg. I have just ordered some indonesian today for £162.99 for 20kg, after placing my order on the net the shop rang to ask about sizes I require ( I thougt this was a good touch). will let you know what its like when it arrives tomorrow :grin:

[newkidfish]

Hi got live rock today and it was fantastic .
Rock is indonesian very porus, lots of pink coraline algae and a good assortment of shapes and sizes (lee at first stop aquatics suppied the rock - I hope I'm not breaking any rules here by mentioning him? :oops: ).
IMO if you are looking for live rock look at what Lee has to offer. :grin:

[tonyponty]

it amazes how much live rock some of you have got in your tanks
how come the bottom of the tank does not break
my tank is 4ft by15 by 18inche deep how much would this hold altogether i prob got about 12kg so far i often think if the bottom is gonna break if i put more in

[Reefer]

Got quite a lot of live rock myself in my current tank, Im going to downsize to 100litre nano (if it is nano @ 100l?) and run it with Berlin method, how much of my live rock would I need to act as all the biological filtration?

[Gillybaby]

it amazes how much live rock some of you have got in your tanks
how come the bottom of the tank does not break
my tank is 4ft by15 by 18inche deep how much would this hold altogether i prob got about 12kg so far i often think if the bottom is gonna break if i put more in

I used to have a 48x15x21 so not far off the size of your tank. It had 34kg of liverock or thereabouts. The bottom never broke so I would think you'd be safe with a bit more :wink:


Got quite a lot of live rock myself in my current tank, Im going to downsize to 100litre nano (if it is nano @ 100l?) and run it with Berlin method, how much of my live rock would I need to act as all the biological filtration?

About 10kg would do it I think. My nano is 60l and I have about 6.5kg in that and it always has 0 nitrates.

[tonyponty]

ok thank you gilly

[total*clowns]

Blimey, never thought of the tank bottom breaking...... :shock:

we have about 45 kilos of live rock in our 4 footer, and at the moment we hae about 55 kilos in our 5 footer, but it still looks so empty.......Suprising though how things fill up once the corals go in alongside some fishies :mrgreen:

[Dons1903]

my tank is 4ft by15 by 18inche deep how much would this hold

The Practical Fishkeeping web site has some excellent calculators. Using their Aquarium Volume Calculator you 42x15x18" tank comes out at:

186l/41gal (49 US gal)

Or if you include typical displacement:

167l/37gal (44 US gal)

I believe the ratio is at least 0.5kg of live rock per gal so 20kg would be suitable for your tank.

[flying Jock]

Hi

Where does anyone get their ratios of LR from?

What facts is it based on?

I think a lot of reefers seem to forget the function of LR and how to get it to work the best way.

If you go by guidlines you end up with a big wall of rocks that you see in so many tanks :sleepy:

LR is best used by creating an open structure which allows good circulation in and around it.

This prevents a build of DOC which in turn will lead to problems.

My reef is scaped such a way as there is no LR touching any of the sides of the tank which has allowed me to create a very good current and lots of swimming space for my fish.

I use no more than 40kg of fijian LR in a 6'x2'x2' as well as 3 DSB's.

Julian Sprung has written a very good article on Lr use and he also states that LR ratios are way off. :wink:

I would start with enough to fill about a third of your tank and work from there.

Good luck :grin:

FJ

Dont forget that when you buy a coral a lot of the time it comes on LR.

[Macca]

FJ you are just to clever. :-D

Your input is much appreciated.

James

[tonyponty]

cheers donns much appreciated thx

[marcoz]

hmmm.. thanks FJ, I've put all my LF at the back because I thought it looked better- I'm gonna use it properly now! 8)

[Gillybaby]

Wow, only 40kg. I've got nearly double that and everywhere I've looked says I've not got enough. But with your dsb's I can see it working well.

But I agree with you wholeheartedly. I went for an open and hollow structure for my lr with flow round and from beneath for exactly the same reason. I also wanted lots of tangs and needed maximum swimming space. So now they can race round and through my rockwork. Its nice as they make the tank look really 3D rather than just chasing up and down the front, which was the mistake we made with our first tank.

I've found my reefracks to be great for (a) providing the illusion of more rock than there really is and (b) for creating the hollow structure. But these too seem to be going out of fashion cause they are "difficult to hide". Mine are well hidden so I don't see this as being a problem and would highly recommend them to anyone in the process of aquascaping.

[flying Jock]

Trust me guys it is an easy way for some LFS to make easy money from you! :roll:

Why not over-exagerate how much Lr you actually need so you buy more after all you are not buying external cannister filters, sand filters and denitrification filters etc from them any more! :wink:

Another factor is that there are so many different types of LR with some being light (fijian) and some much more heavy (carrabean).

So that is another reason as to why ratios of Lr to water do not work.

We all want to create our own wee slice of the reef so why not make it look a bit different (no wall of rock) and use less but still keep your parameters as close to NSW as you can.

As i said in earlier posts i have around 50 fish in my reef so if 40kg of LR and 3 DSB's can keep my nitrates at trace then i must be doing something right :grin:

So dont go spending more than you need to!

I am a jock and i love saving money where i can! :-D

Cheers guys

FJ

[tonyponty]

hi fj thanks for the info and what are dsb`s

[flying Jock]

Sorry Tony!

DSB's are Deep sand beds :wink:

A mixture or one type of sand which nromally tend to be over 2".

Does a very similair to your LR (live rock) but can be very beneficial to madarins.

FJ

[tonyponty]

hi and thx fj i got told just to put about a inch of sand on the bottom should i put some more in and i got told to put my rock across the back of the tank so a lot of it is touching the back of the glass as well i have only had it about 11 mth so would it be alright to move it about
and is there any diagrams on how to build your rock
never looks right wen i do at :?

[flying Jock]

Hi Tony

Sounds like you have had some funny advice there! :-?

LR along the back of your tank is ok but you really want to get as much flow around your LR as possible.

Everone seems to put there LR along the back of the tank. :roll:

If you are running a SSB (shallow sand bed) then that is fine but i would be tempted to put a bit more sand in to make it around 2-3" deep so it will then help you with denitrification.

A mix of silica sand, argonite and coral sand is great but i would stay away from using just coral sand as it will not function very well as a DSB.

If i can find out how to post some pics of my reef on the site i will.

Cheers

FJ

[marcoz]

In which order would place the different sand beds?
top - ?
middle - ?
bottom - ?

[flying Jock]

Hi.

basically i would start with the lighter sand at the bottom and use the heavier sand to weigh the lighter sand dowe especially if have a lot of flow.

You will however find in time that they will all become mixed due to the movement of microfauna within the DSB.

FJ

[tonyponty]

f j the sand i got was a bag of live sand so dont know if it comes under fine or what lol do i get the other sands to go on top from lfs thx

[marcoz]

ok, thanks- gonna change substrate end of week :worried:

[flying Jock]

Play pit sand (silica sand) from The early Learning Centre at £3 for a 10kg bag.

It is white and looks great.

A lot cheaper than your LFS would sell it at! :wink:

If you get stuck Marcoz just give me a shout! :grin:

Adding additional sand is nothing to worry about and will help you get better filtration in the long run! :wink:

Cheers

FJ

[Reefer]

Hi FJ Im going for a skimmer and live rock only in a new system Im putting together, I had considered a deep sand bed but was advised that Id be Ok with just a smattering of crushed coral along the bottom. I want to do the right thing here whats the way to go??

[flying Jock]

Hi Reefer.

I am not saying that you must run a system with a DSB but i have found that using it as an additional filter works very well. :grin:

A reef run on LR and a sprinkling of coral sand works fantastic and your LR will produce full denitrification for your reef.

I prefer not to have much LR in my reef hence why i run a DSB as well but i still stand by that LR ratios are wrong! :wink:

Your method is based on the berlin principle (LR and good skimming) some of us like to add some other methods...

Lee Chinn Eng's (DSB's)

Dr Adey's (refugums/algea scrubber)

By using these methods i have found that i can get the best from each and create a much more natural reef.

No beginner has to go to this length but i like to try and experiment :grin:

Cheers

FJ

[Reefer]

Sorry forgot to say I will also be putting some chaeto in there to help and running an external canister filter with just some Rowaphos. I've also got a new product to try called Clearwater its a filter media its made from baked clay beads and 'special'? resins, it claims to absorb phosphate, nitrate and nitrite without removing important trace elements and claims to promote crystal clear water working better than conventional carbon. I will give it a go.

[flying Jock]

Hi Reefer.

I would use Ultiphos which is half the price of Rowa and does exactly the same job! :wink:

I wouldnt hold much hope on your clearwater product but give it a try.

I would rather let me LR and DSB deal with Nitrites (you shouldnt have any of these anyway) or Nitrates and use a good quality phosphate media.

There are a lot of products out there that claim to reduce all those nasty elements you do not want in your tank and most do nothing! :evil:

Tust me i've tried them! :roll:

A good quality carbon is great if you have a lot of sps and some softies as well it will reduce the amount of gelvin (the stuff that makes your tank look a bit yellow) but make sure you get a good quality carbon.

I tested a "good quality" carbon last week but i found that it was packed with phosphates! :evil:

If you want to PM me i can tell you what products i rate and what products you should stay clear of! :wink:

Cheers

FJ

[newkidfish]

FJ, I agree with ur advice on making sure you can get all round your tank.
Would welcome feedback on the enclosed picture.
Have just added 20kg of indonesian LR, very porus - have created a ridge along the centre of the tank in a slight arc with holes. You can put your hand down all sides and easily clean glass.
Have taken care to ensure stable especially as built quite high, as want it to hide big pump at back of tank. Not keen on usig epoxy glue as had to dismantle daughters rock in past to catch unwelcome hitch hikers :x [http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k147/newkidfish/LiveRock.jpg]

[CORALS4YOU]

has anyone got any ideas on how to get rid of bristle worm ihear spider crabs are good and some wrasses

[Reefer]

Hi Paul
Try Aqua Medics Trapest, they sell them at Clearwater Aquatics on Green Lane road in Leicester, not much of a drive for you and you can deliver me some corals while your about it!!! :lol: Apart from that dottybacks are good at clearing up smaller worms as are Arrow crabs I believe.
Cheers
Glen

[Dons1903]

FJ,

I have read the 0.5kg/gal ratio in several magazine articles/books/web sites but I guess that is based on a pure Berlin method (LR + Skimming).

If you combine LR with other filtration methods such as DSB or refugiums then you will need less LR for the same effect. :P

I guess all that matters is that your Ammonia & Nitrite is 0 and the Nitrate is as low as possible 8-)

[flying Jock]

Hi Dons.

Good point we need to aim for zero all round :wink:

I still do not but any ratios in any magazine. :roll:

Where do they get these ratios from?

What scientific proof have they based it on?

They do not have any! :wink:

It is just a shot in the dark figure as much as fish ratios go for stocking a tank.

All a load of bull! :shock:

Of course as you have said if you combine a DSB with LR then you will not need as much LR but i as most would probably prefer that option so you do not have the good old wall of rocks and your tank can look more natural whilst allowing better circulaion for the removal of DOC and giving your livestock better conditions.

I have seen loads of reefers taking LR out of their tank as they have gone by way out ratios and they have started with problems due to this.

I would rather save my money and spend it on stock rather than a load of LR i do not need.

For me with my own reef being so heavily stocked and fed shows what can be done with less LR and a few DSB's.

As always just my wee opinion. :grin:

Cheers

FJ

[liquidlogic]

LIVE rock all the way, cant knock it 8-)